Author Topic: Tower Idea (Read 3212 times)

Peppyy · « **on:** March 31, 2005, 02:10:37 AM »

As it is said, A picture is worth a thousand words.

I was reading about all the hinged and crank up towers and this just sort of jumped into my head, (I'm "Special) at times, or is that "touched"?

Anyway I thought it might be kind of handy and it should be bretty strong.

PHinker · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2005, 09:11:13 PM »

Peppyy,

Does the 'T' pivot? Does the 42' pipe slide up and down? This is an interesting configuration but I'm a little dense tonight I guess. I don't see what you're driving at.

Paul

Peppyy · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2005, 05:48:31 AM »

Sorry, It is funny when you get somethin in your head it seems so obvious that you sometimes forget that a lot of folks have no idea what you are trying to say. Yes it is designed to pivot between the tee and the 90 like this. The clamps just keep the long pipe from sliding.

Might be a bit more expensive to build but I think it would be a lot more managable fir one person. The lift would never be bore than the weight of the mill and for mailtainence it would be quick and easy.

ivandenisovich · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2005, 06:28:28 AM »

That's not a bad idea. You would have to use somewhat larger pipe for the section supporting the T hinge, and you would have to have a pretty substantial base, since the bottom 75 percent of the tower will be self supporting (if you guy the upper section only). The only other thing is you would have to come up with some what of attaching the yaw bearing to the tower, since when it is tilted over, the mill would be upside down. Most yaw bearing designs I have seen here simply sit on top of the pole using gravity to hold them to the tower.

Paul

Kwazai · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2005, 06:34:51 AM »

cool- rough rule of thumb things from me.

I would suggest not using cast fittings, and to make the pivot part of the tee as large as possible. keep it greased to avoid rust? I would wonder if a cross and cap would work better--no threads-slip fit thru the cross.

L8r

Mike

Norm · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2005, 07:57:57 AM »

Actually you could lower the pivot point,

...shorter leverage arm with a heavy counter-weight on the end just like the Ashtabula

counter-weight drawbridge we have here in Ohio.

( :>) Norm.

Norm · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2005, 08:26:48 AM »

Like this:

maybe 2 base poles with a large pivot pin between them would be sturdier.

( :>) Norm.

kitno455 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2005, 08:59:09 AM »

the guy wire whose force passes thru the tee would tend to bend the tee, and lead to difficulty in swinging and fatigue on the cast joint.

much better done with fabrications than pipe joints.

what about, instead of guy wires, a tripod base, with no central pole in the lower half. does that buy you anything?

allan

kitno455 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2005, 09:27:43 AM »

iron mongery!

we dont need weight, we need leverage. more leverage when the mill is on the ground, and less leverage as it rises (its weight is more supported by the fixed portion of the tower.) how can we get variable leverage? the tube slides out as it rises. an electric winch mounted at the bottom is the only counterweight we need:

purple is electric motor or hand crank, green is cable to stand/fell tower, red is cable to extend boom. those two cables need to retract a different rates, so you might need either two pulleys of different sizes, or if they need not just different rates, but also different rates as they rise, two different motors.

allan

jimjjnn · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2005, 09:28:17 AM »

I saw a similar system like you described but instead of a fixed counter balance it had a steel square enclosed platform that you coud add weight to counter balance it for various sized turbines at the top. This had 2 large "A" frmes with a large pivot shaft across the 2 franes with a monopole that could handle 1 ton turbine. The monopole was, as I recall 130 feet long.

Wish I could remember where on the net I saw this.

kitno455 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2005, 09:45:48 AM »

heck, get rid of the red cable, put a track of some kind on the ground, and a roller on the bottom of the boom. a piece of pipe supported ~ 8 inches off the ground, running from your central concrete pad, out past one of the guy wire pads, ending at its own pad, and some of those sliding gate rollers on either side of it, bolted to the boom.

as you approach the end, you would have to have a way to release those rollers, maybe just going off the end? or,if you were inspired, you could make the final end of the pipe curve up...

it would be hard to get started moving away from vertical, and once it gets very horizontal, the friction in the sliding member will make it hard to slide, so you replace the 1-way green cable with a big loop, use a chain hoist mounted on it's side at the far end of the track, and a free chain pulley at the inner end. the end links on the chain are bolted to the lower end of the boom.

turn hoist, tower goes up and down. one man. no sweat.

allan

Peppyy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2005, 10:26:06 AM »

I may have lucked out. I think I found a reasonable supply of 2 to 4 inch pipe. More when I know for sure.

I agree that the nipple would be the weakest link. How bout using a couple different fittings something like this.

As long as it didn't have too much play it would make a heck of a bearing. It isn't like it is ever going to have that much weight pivoting there and it won't be supporting any weight once the pole is upright.

kitno455 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2005, 11:04:34 AM »

certainly looks strong enough, but unless you are planning to take away the short part once it is upright, there most certainly will be weight on the joint. in fact, what there will be the most of is slight swaying of the joints, as the tower wiggles in the wind. that fatigue is what gets you with cast iron joints, not the ultimate strength.

what you would really rather have is something like the pivot axle extending past the tower and boom, and u clamps. lets see if i can draw. you will need saddles on the back of these clamps, but if you do it this way, you dont have any threaded joints at all in the path of the stress. this is much stronger.

allan

gizmo · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2005, 02:22:04 PM »

I built a tilt tower about 2 years ago now. Once up its about 7 meters high. It has worked very well but there are a couple of things to watch out for.

You need to remember there are no guy wires on the top half of the tower, and mine will get a wobble up occasionally, so dont make your pivit point any less than half way up. And your guy wires and supports do need to be stronger than those required for a non tilting tower.

Also remember when the tower is tilted at 90 degrees, your windmill weight is putting a lot of strain on the mast pipe, I use 70mm dia 6mm wall pipe and when the tower is tilted with my 20kg windmill, there is a very noticable bend in the tube.

Keep that pivot point close the the main mast. My tilt mast pivots over the top of the main mast, so there is no tendancy for the mast to twist as you pivot the tower.

Having a tilt tower is good though, I can drop my windmill in about 3 minutes and even less to put back up, all single handed. You can see it at my web site www.thebackshed.com

Glenn

kenputer · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2005, 02:54:49 PM »

What you need for fittings would be mallable iron and sch.80 nipples I use them when working with steam boilers and let me tell you you can beat on them with a sledge hammer and never have to worry about them splitting. Also some riser clamps jointed together can give good joint support and tie the sections together when tower is upright.

healerenergy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2005, 05:38:10 PM »

I wish I could draw out what I am about to to explain. I have designed a pumkin slinger and I think the base would work realy well for a tilt down tower. Picture a tall four sided pyramid split down the middle with a pivot at the apex and a support poll under each side of the poviot. I would like to recomend that you not use plumbing joints they have no real strength. A piece of thick walled pipe with a piece of shaft welded to each side will work much beter for your joint and brass bearings then clamp the bottom of your swing poll at the bottom.

Peppyy · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2005, 05:48:05 PM »

I was figuring that I would use the sch 80 galvinised for the connection fittings. I think there are a couple things you could do at the base that would also strengthen the tower.

I have to make a couple calls tomorrow but I may end up with a whole bunch of heavy wall pipe

healerenergy · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2005, 07:05:57 PM »

If you use the slide pipe and the pipe on the ground. Tilt the pipe on the ground up as you go away from center this will bring the head down as it slides down and out.

Kwazai · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2005, 06:16:20 AM »

with the larger fittings you might actually be able to shove a car axle bearing or two in there--not sure- would be thinking rear wheel drive axle or cv joint bearing from larger car. just a thought...

L8r

Mike

Peppyy · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2005, 06:31:46 AM »

I had already thought about how to keep the mill on the tower. There are a couple ways to do it but I think this would be the easiest way.

I had a simillar setup I made one time to hold a bit in an auger. It can either be spring or bolted. I don't mind lostening a couple bolts to remove the mill.

jimjjnn · « **Reply #20 on:** April 01, 2005, 10:22:29 AM »

The new edition of "Homepower Magazine"

just came out this morning and I downloaded it to my desktop. In it is advertisements for towers like you are talking about here. Good pix of a tower that shows reinforcement at lower mast.

BTW, you can download it for free on their site. Just register and then download. No fees of any kind and they don't ask for any credit card verification.

I used to have a subscription that I had to let expire since my eyes were also expiring.

With it online, I can make the view as large as I want.

Just enter Homepower in your browser, and you will be there in a couple of clicks.

jimjjnn · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2005, 12:53:08 PM »

Just out doing Spring yard work and just got back to Homepower magazine. The towers on page 25 are self supporting, guyless tilt towers.

Norm · « **Reply #22 on:** April 02, 2005, 07:18:31 AM »

Just use a 10 ton floor jack.

( :>) Norm.

nothing to lose · « **Reply #23 on:** April 04, 2005, 12:28:14 AM »

I kinda like using junk car parts for various things.

How about the side posts come straight up, a hollow pipe welded to the top of those just large enough for a rear axle to fit into. Weld a plate on each side of your tower mast and bolt the axle hubs to those plates. Now you have a really strong support! If you wanted you could even make it to hold those sealed axle bearings for it to pivot on instead of metal axle to metal pipe. At the top of the tower to hold the genie in place use another rear axle. Make the top of the tower so that the sealed axle bearing fits tight and set a small plate to bolt the retainer cover to also. Now when You want to mount the gennie just make the base plate the same bolt pattern as the hub you used.

Bring the tower pipe all the way to the ground and have a stud driven into the ground or set in concrete to bolt it to when rasied. To lower just unbolt lower tower section and let swing to side and of course use what ever is needed for a cable to controll it. If basically a solid one peice tower from gound to the mill and ballanced well, probably a simple rope would be usable for one person to lower or raise the genie.

After all, if the gennie is the only wieght out of ballance on the pivoting tower it should not be that hard to controll. If it's a really heavy gennie then adding a counter wieght on the bottom would be good.

Winches are ok if needed, but I'd rather not need one.

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Author Topic: Tower Idea (Read 3212 times)