Author Topic: Monday April 3  (Read 3060 times)

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DanB

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Monday April 3
« on: April 04, 2006, 04:53:26 PM »


We built the tail bearing for the big machine.  It's 22" long made from 2.5" sched 40 pipe which slips over 2" pipe.  The tail boom is from 1.5" sched. 40 pipe and it's 10' long.  I was unable to finish the tail boom due to lack of materials -but next week all the metal work should be done.



George cleaned up all the welds.  The orbital sander does a nice job of finishing the metal/preparing it for paint.



Rich is using the drill press to fit the tail to an 11' machine we built recently.



I painted the magnet rotors red for the 20' machine.



The rest of the machine is black.  Next week hopefully I can paint the tail boom and start working on the blade hubs.



A couple months ago I posted in some detail how we build the assembly pictured above which supports the alternator for a 10' diameter wind turbine.  There are lots of different ways to do this stufff... this is just how we do it!  Click Here to see that story.  Following is how we build the rest of the machine (Except the tail).  Normally we use a jig we made up which makes it very fast/easy - but we built one without the jig yesterday just for some pictures.  In the picture above we have the assembly that contains the stator brackets/spindle on the steel workbench with a 1/2" thick shim beneath it.  



The yaw bearing is a 12" long piece of 2.5" dia sched 40 pipe.  We mark the center so that the alternator will be centered on it.



This is the piece that attaches the alternator to the yaw bearing.  It's 2" diameter sched 40 pipe, and its 2.5" long at the longest part.  We coped it with a hole saw.



Looking at if from the bottom of the wind turbine: The 2" pipe connects the alternator frame to the yaw bearing as shown above.  There should be 5" between the center of the yaw bearing and the center of the spindle (this is the offset that allows the machine to furl).



Looking from the side, you can see we've put a shim under the top of the yaw bearing.  This makes it such that once welded together, the spindle will tip up about 5 deg to help keep the blade tips away from the tower.



Then we tack weld it all together and double check that everything looks good before doing the final welding.



Next we tack weld the tail bracket to the tail pivot.  The bracket cut from 1/4" steel.  It's 3" tall, 1" wide at the bottom, and 2.125" wide at the top (which makes for an angle of about 20 deg). The tail pivot is 9" long and the top of the tail bracket is located at the center of the tail pivot (so there's 4.5" of pipe above the top of the tail pivot).  We position the bracket on the pipe and lightly tack weld it at the top, bottom -and on the center of each side.  If we weld too heavily before taking it into position it will pull the bracket to one side as the weld cools - so tack welding first is important.



The bracket should be centered on the pipe as shown above.



We put the machine in the vice at 45 deg.  



Then tack weld the tail bracket/pivot to the machine so that it points straight up as shown in the picture.  



The top of the yaw bearing is a disk about 2.75" in diameter.  (its a touch smaller - it's actually a scrap out of the center of a magnet rotor).  We drill a .75" hole in it so that the cord can run down through it -and through the tower.  The next step is to weld this on.



A veiw from the top of the finished assembly.  All thats left now for metal work is to build the tail.



A veiw of the same thing from the side.  We never finished the tail on Monday so perhaps next Monday I'll ramble on about that some.



On the lighter side...  again - this week, George had problems with the cork screw and spent about 5 min trying not to drop the cork in the bottle!



Scott turned the magnet rotors for his new machine.  I think maybe next Monday we might get that assembled.  It will be fun to see how it works out with a two bladed prop and an airbrake.



Georges supper consists of: Pizza, Beans - ground 'mountain lion' (we all had mountain lion burgers for lunch which was interesting and tasty), and 'red beer' (PBR and spicy V-8).



Tom had an audiance while he ate...

« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 04:53:26 PM by (unknown) »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

Shadow

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2006, 11:28:27 AM »
Very nice work as usual! I'm trying to make sense of the picture of the red magnet rotor,Will there not be a rotor mounted on the back of the spindle hub?  Something dosent look right, or maybe its just me..I add all these posts to my hotlist and constantly refer back to them when I'm building. Thanks
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 11:28:27 AM by Shadow »

DanB

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2006, 11:31:38 AM »
Hi Shadow -

There's not room behind the hub on this one to fit a magnet rotor.  I could do it - but it would involve a fair amount of work - so I decided to mount both rotors off the front of this hub.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 11:31:38 AM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

whatsnext

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2006, 11:41:47 AM »
What kind of welder do you use and how do you power it? I thought I saw a Miller 175 in a previous thread but that's a 220 machine.

John...
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 11:41:47 AM by whatsnext »

jmk

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2006, 11:58:39 AM »
 I hear the couger population is getting large. Do you guys ever have any problems with them? Do you guys hunt them or was it a freind that got it for you? I didn't know that people ate them. I bet they taste like chicken. LOL! I saw a documentry on them and They claim that they can jump sraight up 22' from a dead leap! I would have to see it to beleave it though. I could see were they could be a real problem with little ones playing around.

 The mill is looking good. I bet it wont be to long now and it will be done. I bet you are excited to get the blades going.    
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 11:58:39 AM by jmk »

Moosie

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2006, 12:25:10 PM »
Where do we send funds for George's cork screw? I'm sure between a few of us, we can probably scrounge up enough to get him one of those fancy uns' with a topless go go dancer or sumpthin'.....
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 12:25:10 PM by Moosie »

DanB

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2006, 12:26:25 PM »
Yes, that's right - its a miller 175.  I run it with my 6hp listeroid which is belted to a 5KW Winco generator head.  A future project will be to build an axial flux alternator for the listeroid which should be a bit more efficient and make for easier starting.  (if its really cold I have to remove the belt to start that engine - let it warm up, shut it down and put the belt back on)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 12:26:25 PM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

SmoggyTurnip

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2006, 12:28:01 PM »
I love the red color.

What kind of paint do you use?

Does it hold up well to the weather?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 12:28:01 PM by SmoggyTurnip »

DanB

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2006, 12:31:41 PM »
 "I hear the couger population is getting large. Do you guys ever have any problems with them?"


I've only seen one in my life (Im sure they see us a lot more than we see them).  I've had no problems here but lower in the canyon it's not uncommon for them to take dogs and livestock.  They're spooky things!


 "Do you guys hunt them or was it a freind that got it for you?"


No - somebody that George knows gave him some.


 "I didn't know that people ate them. I bet they taste like chicken."


George fed us burgers and didn't tell us what it was till we were done.  I honestly thought it was elk or something - very lean.


" LOL! I saw a documentry on them and They claim that they can jump sraight up 22' from a dead leap! I would have to see it to beleave it though."


I can imagine that - we were talking about that last night, DanF and Tom saw one leap across the road once and looked at the tracks - it was something like 20' that it leaped.


 "I could see were they could be a real problem with little ones playing around."


Yes, it is a bit scary - although I worry a lot less about them than I did about people when I lived in town.


 "The mill is looking good. I bet it wont be to long now and it will be done. I bet you are excited to get the blades going. "


Yes - it's coming together quickly now.  May is very busy for me so hopefully in June we can get to building a tower for it.  

« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 12:31:41 PM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

DanB

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2006, 12:34:07 PM »
I use Nason (which is one of Du-ponts less expensive brands) Acrylic Enamel.  It's pretty typical automotive paint - it seems to hold up really well.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 12:34:07 PM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

drdongle

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2006, 07:00:04 PM »
That machine is a real monster, I hope it exceeds your expectations!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 07:00:04 PM by drdongle »

12AX7

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2006, 10:14:13 PM »
Hello DanB


Very nice!


However,  I find it strange that George uses Saftey Glasses for screwing a cork,  but not when he sands orbitaly.


oh,   if osha shows up ...   feed em to the lions!

« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 10:14:13 PM by 12AX7 »

ffoegw

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2006, 05:54:17 AM »


PBR and spicy V-8 !


I understand the spicy V-8 part but gonna need clarification on the PBR.


Perhaps its a cultural thing.


Whats the rest of the recipe?


Equal parts?


I'll try almost anything once.


Geoff

« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 05:54:17 AM by ffoegw »

ghurd

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2006, 06:43:06 AM »
Pabst Blue Ribbon beer.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 06:43:06 AM by ghurd »
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veewee77

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2006, 09:16:37 AM »
That's funny!


I don't even drink beer and I knew what PBR was!


Great looking machine Dan!


I have a question, though.  In our part of the country, it gets pretty hot in the summertime.  It seems to me that the magnet rotors with the magnets glued on would be succeptible to expansion and contraction with temp changes.


With that in mind, do you think it is good to use dark colored paint?


I'd be afraid the exansion and contraction may let the magents let go after a while. . .


Any thoughts on this?


Doug

« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 09:16:37 AM by veewee77 »

DanB

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2006, 10:36:20 AM »
HI Doug - yes, I think a lot about that stuff.  'red' shouldn't be too bad although a lighter color would be better.  I'm optimistic that the epoxy will hold them well but time will tell.  If I were less of a gambler I'd have run a steel band around the magnet rotors to make sure they could never come loose.  Sometimes I like to find out what I can get away with.. ;-)  which is part of keeping things as simple as possible.


The machine is black but that won't affect the magnet rotors too much.  

« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 10:36:20 AM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

ffoegw

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2006, 11:28:07 AM »


Yep,


It's cultural.


If you had said Labatts, Molson or Sleemans it would have been easy.


I don't think you can get PBR in Canada and if you can I don't think many drink it.


Then again I might have understood MGD.


Geoff

« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 11:28:07 AM by ffoegw »

ffoegw

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2006, 11:31:30 AM »


or BUD

« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 11:31:30 AM by ffoegw »

dinges

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2006, 05:07:14 PM »
I hope none of the animal welfare societies visit this board. Those dogs... This is pure torture.


Like it is pure torture to show such nice pictures of windgennies. <wiping off drool>


Peter.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 05:07:14 PM by dinges »
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Buck L

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2006, 09:43:38 PM »
As always Great looking work, great project. Can't wait to see it working.I read your sight every day just to whats new; You guys are like Fine Wine Just get better with age.,err as time goes on.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 09:43:38 PM by Buck L »

Dave B

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2006, 11:43:01 PM »
Dan,

  Am I correct in noticing your offset ratio from center of yaw bearing to spindle center is such for 10' rotor = 5"  12' = 6"  14' = 7"  It just looks this way and possibly 10" for this 20' monster ? Same for total boom length including tail at 5' for 10' rotor  6' for 12'  7' for 14' etc. and 10' for the 20' ?  This should get most in the ballpark if your tail angle and mount location are measured and built as shown, right ? How heavy do you expect this completed mill (and blade weight) to be when completed before slipping it on over the main pivot post ? 300 lbs ? Your tower will be a whole new project we'll be anxiously watching for besides. This looks great,  Dave B.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 11:43:01 PM by Dave B »
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DanB

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Re: Monday April 3
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2006, 06:15:12 AM »
Hi Dave - on the offset - yes, pretty much thats the rule of thumb I follow.  Im offset about 11" on this 20' machine.


Assuming the blades (just the wood) comes in around 70 pounds (which I expect it will be close if not a bit more) then the whole thing should weigh right about 500 pounds.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2006, 06:15:12 AM by DanB »
If I ever figure out what's in the box then maybe I can think outside of it.

WXYZCIENCE

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ReTSR
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2006, 09:43:49 AM »
With 20' what is your estimated Tip Speed and how do you intend to slow er down in high winds.
I am new to this site and am very impressed with your work. Never thought I would ever find people with a yard that looks like mine. I try to post couple time a week, gets hard when I am spending my time looking at others excellent work. The ability to add pictures in the format of this site is wonderful also. Someone else said it is addictive, their right! Glad to be on board, Joe.  
« Last Edit: April 06, 2006, 09:43:49 AM by WXYZCIENCE »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: ReTSR
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2006, 08:22:33 PM »
Tip speed doesn't change with diameter for a given TSR blade design.  Instead RPM for a given wind speed drops in proportion to inverse of diameter.


Meanwhile torque goes up with the cube, so power (proportional to torque times RPM) goes up with the square, as expected.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2006, 08:22:33 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

SmoggyTurnip

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Re: ReTSR
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2006, 08:57:49 AM »
Welcome to the board.

It is addictive!

I was looking at your files and

noticed you have a great XYZer.

Did you build it yourself?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 08:57:49 AM by SmoggyTurnip »

WXYZCIENCE

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Re: WXYZer
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2006, 11:08:01 PM »
Smoggy. We built the wxyzer back a few years and the one in the picture is cutting a 34 magnet rotor for a new wind mill design. The W axis was completed last month and very precision rotary cuts are now being made. We have also made small fast blades out of aircraft aluminum. By cutting 3 at one time they are good to 2000 rpm with no counter balancing. Also the design can be quickly change on the cad program. We have tested many designs and shapes. Thanks for your interest. Joe.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2006, 11:08:01 PM by WXYZCIENCE »

SmoggyTurnip

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Re: WXYZer
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2006, 05:18:09 AM »
Thats pretty amazing.  When you say "We"

are you refering to a company you own,

work for or what?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 05:18:09 AM by SmoggyTurnip »

WXYZCIENCE

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Re: WXYZer
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2006, 07:18:50 PM »
Yes We, myself and my twin brother William. William built and programed the controller for the WXYZer. The first unit was built in 1996. We started it as a hobby but some times what you enjoy doing becomes a way of life. The unit runs on 600 watts. Joe.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2006, 07:18:50 PM by WXYZCIENCE »