Author Topic: Freelites  (Read 6507 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

peterhannan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Freelites
« on: June 02, 2007, 04:18:55 AM »
Apparently, according to my father who was born in 1927, Lucas had actually stopped production of the a900 generator & had to be talked into making them again. I have a couple of new ones & were told they had yet to be converted. The old machine for rewinding the field coils was still in our shop until 1974. After the generators were converted, either 12 or 32 volt, they were fitted with a plate stamped with a model no. This was either "d" for direct drive or "g" for a geared model, most geared models being 32 volt. Behind the letter prefix was the year designation.

The photo sent in by Flux is a "D36" the year being the design date, not date of manufacture. There were many different models, the earliest photo I have is from a newspaper ad about 1932 but the exact year they started production is not known.

Generally the models with wooden props were post war & the furling system & offset pivot to help prevent overspeed made them the most reliable models. I have a "D46" up & running & it works very well, the only problem being it needs an automatic overspeed brake which I am working on at present. Hoping this has been of some interest. Regards Peter.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 04:18:55 AM by (unknown) »

Flux

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 6275
Re: Freelites
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2007, 02:02:02 AM »
Thanks Peter.

The main use of the A900 dynostarter was for the Hotchkiss engine for the Bullnose Morris car and that may have been out of production by 1927.


It is interesting that the dynamos you used were converted dynostarters. many were converted by home builders over a long period of time and I converted one about 40 years ago. The results of the conversion are not as good as the armature that Lucas must have built specially for the Freelite as produced here, maybe you got the later dynamos when Lucas took up production of the Freelite.


The original armature was designed to accept the heavy winding needed for a starter and used open slots. The later dymamo for the Freelite used semi-closed slots and had double the number of commutator segments, there seems to have been a straight core and a skew core version. At some time the field poles seem to have been changed slightly but a Freelite armature will actually fit into an A900 body. There was a slight change to the brush boxes.


I have only seen direct drive versions, I am not aware that Lucas produced a geared unit. Direct drives were originally 12v but later a 24v version became available.


I agree that the change to wooden prop must have taken place round the war years, I have only met two with the aluminium prop and I can probably remember back to about 1945.


Thanks for confirming the date of design of the D36, that settles an argument I had with a friend some years ago when he claimed he had a 1928 unit.


What is the difference on your D43 model, does that have the later furling scheme with the dynamo pivoted on the head?


I will post some pictures of the difference between the A900 dynostarter and the Lucas produced freelite dynamo as used in the uk when I get a chance.


Flux

« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 02:02:02 AM by Flux »

Flux

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 6275
Re: Freelites
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2007, 03:47:23 AM »
Here are the pictures.


First is Freelite dynamo with cast drive end and tapered shaft.



Next is A900R dynostarter with splined shaft and steel drive end plate.





Next is A900R rewound as wind generator about 40 years ago.



Finally A900R and straight slotted Freelite armatures.


You can also see from the pictures that the Freelite dynamo have a single screw pole fixing, the A900R has two screws, the pole forgings are slightly different.


Later Freelite dynamos have the commutator end casting slightly modified to incorporate a pair of capacitors and a choke for radio interference suppression.


Flux

« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 03:47:23 AM by Flux »

Nando

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1058
Re: Freelites
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2007, 08:11:48 AM »
HECK, I WAS "RUNG"


I thought that FREELITES , were some light fixtures that we could get for free.


Nando

« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 08:11:48 AM by Nando »

peterhannan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Freelites
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2007, 10:09:49 PM »
Thanks Flux for your interesting photos & info. I have never seen the a900 generator in it's original form. The armature with the twisted segments seems to have been quite common on the early freelites I have seen, straight ones being the later. The brand new generators that came in boxes were always painted red & I was told they were all 24 volt although I am not sure how true that was, I did not see any of this stuff until 1971 & there was only two or three people left in the place that knew anything about them. There was only a scattering of old parts, generators etc. laying about when I decided to assemble a freelite for myself, having only seen them on the top of farmhouses from a distance. When I came across the original drawings for the "D46" that made it easier to locate the parts needed to complete the thing but being an apprentice in a place full of grumpy old blokes it was very hard to get any help as they thought I was wasting my time.

   As far as I can make out from photos from the U.K. it looks as if only the "D36" & "D46" models were produced by lucas although Hannan's sold quite a few of the geared plants in the Pacific. They also produced a 6volt model but this was fairly early, about 1934 or earlier.

   The "d46" & "g47" were the pivoting dynamo models where the furling handle lifted the tail up & a rod pushed the generator around sideways. The "G47" used the same tail & head assy. but had a large gearbox in the dynamo pivot & used two of the wooden props on top of each other. I have several of these which are 32 volt but my dad said they used to shake quite a bit in high winds so I have not tried one. The Hannans Freelites were mainly all 12 volt or 32 volt, I don't know of any 24 volt models produced here. Apologies if I have bored you with all this drivel.

                                                         Regards Peter
« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 10:09:49 PM by peterhannan »

Flux

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 6275
Re: Freelites
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2007, 01:30:21 AM »
No this is not drivel. You have cleared up many things that I have never been able to sort out.


I understand your problem of trying to raise interest at a time when wind generators were not the "in thing". I have played with the things on and off all my life but only on the last 10 years has anyone else taken the slightest interest. I was quite relieved to discover Hugh Piggott's work and that renewed my interest.


I am still not sure what generators you had supplied, presumably the later ones were the ones Lucas produced for the Freelite, but if you say there was equipment for winding the field coils then at some stage it seems as though some modification was made. The original dynostarter armature would have needed rewinding and the fields also needed rewinding.


There was indeed a skew core version of the Freelite armature and I rewound one for a friend once but it is not the same core as the A900R, the slots are quite different.


The Freelite cores were semi closed slots and the windings are held in by slot wedges. If the skew core had the windings held in by banding wire over low parts of the core then it would have been the original open slot core.


Thanks for confirming the date of the D46, they seem to have been later than that appearing here, but things were slow to change after the war and there may have been stocks of the earlier model to shift first.


I think the 24v version was fairly late here so it is unlikely that you would have received them as standard, I can't imagine Lucas making 24v for export if they were using 12v here.


One thing does seem possible is that the geared unit also used the 12v dynamo but the fields may have been rewound in Australia to suit the 32v. The 12v armature would have produced 32v with the gearbox.


Flux

« Last Edit: June 03, 2007, 01:30:21 AM by Flux »

Flux

  • Super Hero Member Plus
  • *******
  • Posts: 6275
Re: Freelites
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2007, 02:14:35 AM »
No not much is free in this world. In fact the Freelite was quite expensive at he time, at least in the UK. Not many people could afford such things. In the '50s The complete installation with batteries was about £70 and then you had to provide the tower.


Flux

« Last Edit: June 03, 2007, 02:14:35 AM by Flux »

angle

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Freelites
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2007, 12:03:44 AM »
G'day all.   I was running a Freelite which I had totally restored back in the early seventies on a property for many years, but the rampant greenies next door threw a star picket into the spinning blade which led to it destroying the blade and the casting on the head as well - apparently something to do with me stealing energy out of nature and upsetting the yin and yang balance of the elements. I've kept all the broken bits in the hope of one day getting it going again. In all I've scrounged up 3 generators (12V), 2 heads and tails and 2 aluminium props, 1 destroyed and 1 complete but not usable. I've been looking for 10 years now for anything about the Freelites and happend to stumble on this web site.

Recent times I've built up a solar powered system (on another property) but would like to get the old Freelite up and going again to supplement that system. Can anybody tell me where I might be able to aquire, or get made, another blade the same as the original. The only modification to the whole set up that I had, was to have a motor drive (windscreen wiper motor at the bottom of the tower)to furl the tail, controlled by a voltage sniff when the output volts got too high. This furling protected the unit from high winds and worked well for 20 years, otherwise it was totally original.

I hope someone can point me in a direction to get a new prop to get the old girl out of the shed and up and working again, as she should be (and to hell with the Yin and Yang imbalance it may or may not cause).

                                       Angle
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 12:03:44 AM by angle »

spinningmagnets

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 600
Re: Freelites
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2007, 09:37:05 PM »
I would recommend making up three new blades as it would be difficult to exactly match the density of the blade you have left, and balance is very important. But the blade you have is perfect for a pattern. The size and shape of the blade is perfect for the size generator you have, so you dont have to re-invent the wheel. There are many pictures on the projects pages on how to make a prop in your garage out of wood. Make sure to seal the prop with some kind of paint or coating so they don't soak up rain and get out of balance. -Ron
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 09:37:05 PM by spinningmagnets »

angle

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Freelites
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2007, 06:51:03 PM »
G'day 'spinning magnets'

                        Thanks for the reply and suggestion to make a wooden prop, but I've been trying to avoid having to make a prop from scratch again. The last one I made lasted just 3 years (20 years ago). Although I epoxy-coated the whole unit, it was the leading edge that slowly eroded away from what appeared to be hard shelled insect strikes and the resultant erosion that was caused by the sludge of the 'body parts' left behind. The old original aluminium prop of the Freelite seemed to be invincible to these little critters.

Call me a sentimental nostalgic, but there's something magical about restoring and re-using 1930's technology as it was originally built to meet our more modern technological needs. It's a bit like restoring a vintage car back to original and then replacing the wooden spoked wheels with radial tyred chromed mags - sure it works, but something just seems to be lost. 'Plan A' is to get hold of an original prop, but if I must replace it with a non original, then I'm seiously thinking about getting one made in the same proile from carbon fibre (more expensive yes, but would look and perform the same as the original one) Any suggestions on what sort of company would be able to do this sort of thing without costing me an arm and both legs? (I'm in Victoria, Australia, where are you located?)

                                                           Angle
« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 06:51:03 PM by angle »

salvington

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: gb
Re: Freelites
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2018, 05:00:29 AM »
Apparently, according to my father who was born in 1927, Lucas had actually stopped production of the a900 generator & had to be talked into making them again. I have a couple of new ones & were told they had yet to be converted. The old machine for rewinding the field coils was still in our shop until 1974. After the generators were converted, either 12 or 32 volt, they were fitted with a plate stamped with a model no. This was either "d" for direct drive or "g" for a geared model, most geared models being 32 volt. Behind the letter prefix was the year designation.

The photo sent in by Flux is a "D36" the year being the design date, not date of manufacture. There were many different models, the earliest photo I have is from a newspaper ad about 1932 but the exact year they started production is not known.

Generally the models with wooden props were post war & the furling system & offset pivot to help prevent overspeed made them the most reliable models. I have a "D46" up & running & it works very well, the only problem being it needs an automatic overspeed brake which I am working on at present. Hoping this has been of some interest. Regards Peter.