Author Topic: looking for software (Read 2043 times)

hrperkins · « **on:** March 24, 2009, 09:10:05 PM »

I have a micro wind and solar system operating on a farm in the Dallas area. It is used to run a small irrigation system for the garden on the farm. The wind turbine uses an Amertek motor and the solar system is from Harbor Freight.

I am looking for PC software that can be used to display, on a PC, the output voltage from a wind turbine, solar panel and battery bank as either digital or analog meters. I have looked at visual basic and lab view. The latter has a steep price tag and the former is what I shall use if I get no response here.

I use an Arduino micro controller as the data collector and voltage regulator. The serial data link uses commercial FreeWave radios, operating at 9600 BPS, as I had a pair of them in my Ham Radio junk box. The Arduino outputs CSV data every 2.5 seconds that is collected on a stand alone PC about 150 meters away in a shop area. I use RealTerm software for the data and Excel to make up charts on performance data.

The data, for the moment, is restricted to wind turbine voltage, solar panel voltage and battery bank voltage. The next generation will include air and soil temperature, solar panel current, wind speed, wind direction and water pump current draw.

The system description and some of the initial data recordings are available at

http://herbandbarbara.com/index_files/Page4237.htm.

I would appreciate communicating with anyone who has been recording performance data on a micro system and I would appreciate a recommendation for a software package that can display the data in real time.

Herb

nunyabeezwax · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:12:35 PM »

Seems to me you can use VBA(Visual Basic for Applications) or Open Office Basic to automate the process displaying the data in Excel or OpenOffice without a third party software.

NunYa

Rover · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:47:20 PM »

Since you are familiar with micro controllers and VB, I'd suggest writing your own. That is what I and others on here have done. I'm basically doing the same thing using Basic stamps BS2PXs . I Used VB and C# .Net for my PC apps but most could be done with VB6 or JAVA. I alos used RF tranceivers for data (I'm using 2, 1 for system monitoring, the other for controlling various devices (stream , lights etc)

I haven't seen anything off the shelf that would do exactly what I want with the expansion possibilities that come from rolling your own.

I have my data uploading to my web site and can be seen here. http://www.rovr1.com/wind/

If you are looking for graphing... don't waste your time with vb6's or any .Net graphing control.. pretty bad.. the good news is there are a lot of really good open source / freeware controls that will do a much better job with vb etc.

SparWeb · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:51:54 PM »

Hi Herb,

There's a simple but useful kit from The Backshed called Piclog. It uses a PICAXE to do the same thing you're doing. My understanding is that programming the interface is the one thing that the creator really spent a lot of time upon - the rest is basic electronics from a store, a kit from PICAXE, and you can scrounge the rest. The Backshed's Piclog does pretty much what you already have, in fact, if you already have an Arduino I shouldn't bother to suggest another PIC platform. However if you ask nicely maybe Glenn will give you some pointers on making your own interface that will do what the standard Arduino interface software doesn't.

http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/AssemblyA.asp#4

Going in another direction, there's a board member here, I think it's Dan Lennox "dlennox" who has put together his own "dashboard", so to speak, which graphically displays wind turbine parameters on his computer screen. You might want to get in touch with him.

If I knew anything about programming in VB myself I would have done something like this already, too!

Rover · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:58:35 PM »

Added note, you could skip the csv and have the app (in whatever language) dump to a db (I use access for portability) then a query the for whatever stats I want and feed to the graph control . Com communications with VB6 and .Net are not that hard. Ridiculously simple in .Net

And for a charting/Graph control I suggest ZedGraph ... at http://zedgraph.org ... I know it supports .Net.

frackers · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2009, 06:31:17 PM »

If you have the data in CSV format already then importing it into Cacti should be straight forward.

Take a look at my system which has wind turbine data and weather data displays.

hrperkins · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2009, 09:26:54 AM »

Thank you for the comments and for the link to your web site. I am well pleased to know I am not alone in collecting data and then trying to make sense of it. I was particularly found of your how to fail comments as they really are right on point. I do plan to reference a number of them and hope you do not mind. The information on zedgraph was also very useful. This is a link I knew nothing about.

I should have added in my first inquiry that the display of data from the system is not really for me but for the "farmer girl" who has no real clue about electronics beyond turning the on/off switch to the on position for lights. She has a degree in horticulture and is an accomplished farmer but beyond that ..... nothing.

I wanted a simple display that would show her, and visitors to the farm, the wind turbine output voltage, battery voltage and solar output voltage. This was more for the "glitz" then for the information value. The data behind the displays is the really important stuff.

The farm is a CSA (community supported agriculture) so there are about 40 share holders who have an interest in the farm. Therefore, something that shows how the renewable energy systems works is the goal.

Your comments on blade design were also of interest. As I noted on my site, the original blades I used for the turbine were not very scientifically designed. My limited background in aerodynamics told me that I was not doing a good job of it but without any way to really test the final product, I just made a guess at it. Now, like you, I have a way to really take data and make comparisons so expect more information on new blade testing.

Thanks for the information and comments.

Herb

hrperkins · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2009, 09:30:14 AM »

Steven,

Thanks for the reference to Glenn. He and I have spoken several times. He and I have reciprocal links to our respective web sites and it was his suggestion that I use visual basic to make the meter set up. I was just being lazy about writing my own and had looked for the quick and dirty way out. Guess I really have to go to work now ...

Thanks for the response.

Herb

hrperkins · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2009, 09:33:52 AM »

Robin - down under - from those of use above you .....

Thanks for the link.... This is a program I was not aware of and will try it out. As I noted in other responses I was trying to find a quick and dirty way to put up a display and from the amount of time I spent looking, I could have written the code and had it working .....

Where do you live down under.... Australia is one of my favorite places to visit and I still have a number of good friends there??

Herb

dlenox · « **Reply #9 on:** March 25, 2009, 11:35:53 AM »

Herb,

I make and sell software for the Xantrex XW series called PowerDashboard unfortunately you are not using an XW inverter, but I did not see you mention the solar controller? If it is Xantrex XW SCC solar charge controllers my software can work with it (sans XW inverter).

You also did not mention it the Amertek motor puts out 1/2/3-phase AC, or DC.

I am using a DataQ A/D controller for turbine rpm acquisition and it works great, it can also be used with Davis Anemometer for wind direction and speed. My website above has links to the DataQ if you are interested in it.

Dan Lenox

hrperkins · « **Reply #10 on:** March 25, 2009, 01:29:28 PM »

Dan,

I have two solar controllers ... one is a Morningstar PWM unit that I use at the house but at the farm I use the Arduino microcomputer as the regulator. It is a dumb device and only checks the battery voltage. If the batteries are full then it diverts to a dump load. Nothing very fancy but it works OK for the moment.

However, I plan to improve the capabilities of the system by using the PWM output from the Arduino as an intelligent battery charger. The next effort will be to install a pass element and then control that with the Arduino. The first effort will use a 50% duty cycle until I learn some more about PWM wave forms and how to make them smart.

The wind turbine is a DC unit. It should put out about 6 amps DC when it is turning at about 375 RPM's but so far I have not validated that. This is one of the reasons I am monitoring the telemetry and expanding the system.

The goal is to monitor voltage and current from the solar and wind systems and consumption current from the pump. In addition, I will add a weather station that is linked to the weather underground and the APRS Ham Radio network.

The description of your dashboard was just what I was looking for. Something that I could make up digital and analog meters to display the system performance data with. Unfortunately, it now looks as if I have to actually write the code for doing this .... And this is something I am not good at. I am a hardware guy and while I can kind of do the software stuff, it takes me time to get it right..... that was why I started looking for an off-the-shelf solution.

Thanks for the response.

Herb

ghurd · « **Reply #11 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:09:08 PM »

Off Topic, but the Ametek is not going to make 1A at 375RPM.

The charts are interesting.

The 14.47V solar voltage and 13.6V battery voltage is a sign of... "something"?

The solar amps would be better with a better blocking diode than what is in the HF controller. Even a $5 Schottky would help.

If the solar is still only 3 x 15W HF PVs, a $30 SG-4 will get a good percentage more solar amps per day.

G-

hrperkins · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:33:45 PM »

Thanks for the response -

HF solar controller - When I installed the Arduino and made it the regulator and data collector I took out the harbor freight controller but still use the DPM so Marie, the real farmer in this saga, can have something to look at when she is running the pump.

Charts: The data for the charts is taken before the blocking diode (old Motorola diode from my recycle or ham radio junk box - not sure right now what it was before it went into the system). Therefore, the load of the batteries is not evident. On the other side of the diode, the panel output voltage is reflective of the battery load.

My goal is sampling voltage before the batteries was to get a clear idea of unloaded outputs from the wind turbine and the solar panels. I had a plan to incorporate Amploc current sensor to monitor the current but it did not get the breadboard finished in time. Therefore, I will add them later when I expand the system and install the next software load into the Arduino.

The Amertek motor came from Ed at WindStuffNow and I may have the RPM wrong in my description. Thanks for noticing it - I will get a note off to him and find out what the output is really suppose to be.

I have never measured the actual current out from the wind turbine.... Need to do that.

I got about 3.8 amps from the HF solar panels but this was just after I installed them and it was not in full sun. I really need to measure them again and post what the real output is ..... Again, that was one of the objectives in monitoring the system.

Herb

Rover · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:44:53 PM »

If you got 3.8 amps from those amorphous panels, I'm impressed. I have a set and never got more than 2.8 , and in full sun.

ghurd · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2009, 03:09:31 PM »

We may have a couple issues with the term 'unloaded'.

The PVs will be loaded in daylight with a dump load controller system. That is why the voltage never bottoms out to less than the diode drop above the battery voltage.

Overlay the battery and solar voltage on the same chart to see what I mean.

Delta V of working PV and battery equals the diode drop.

The wind turbine is not under the same daylight rules, and the charts show it down to 0V.

The working voltage of the turbine follows the same rules as a PV in daylight, meaning a turbine making amps into a battery is at the same voltage as the battery minus rectifier voltage loss.

G-

frackers · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2009, 03:42:01 PM »

Just outside Christchurch, South Island, New Zealand. Well placed for wind power as even the local council acknowledges it is a 'high wind zone' :-)

hrperkins · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2009, 03:44:59 PM »

We are in agreement as to the measurements - however, you got me to thinking about why the charts are as they are ...

I did not use precision resistors when I made up the voltage dividers and carbon film resistors have a bad habit of drifting all around the barn. In addition, I never really looked at the noise on the A to D inputs. As I have a radio in the same box and no shielded wire for interconnections, I now wonder if I could not be inducing some additional noise into the system that would distort the readings?

I need to take a scope out there and look at that....

You also bring me to task with the voltage dividers - I need to replace them with cermet devices (I have a box of Beckman ten turn board mounted pots that I now feel like I should have used rather than the cheap carbon film resistors) as these will not drift around and they are a lot more temperature stable.

Hmmm looks like I need to do some more work out at the farm to clean this up a bit.....

Thanks for the input.

Herb

Rover · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2009, 03:56:56 PM »

What are your resistance values in the divider? I'm pretty sure I'm using 150K / 50K ohm at 5% carbon 1/2 watt, might be 1/4 was whatever I had on hand , for a 5 out 20 V to go to my ADC chip 0-4.096V range.

ghurd · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:14:39 PM »

Agreement is good.

But you are 'overthinking the plumbing' as one senior member would say.

"Reinventing the analog wheel in a digital format" as another might say.

No need for a scope or precision resistors. The blocking diode is the focus.

A basic charging system can never operate higher than the battery voltage + the diode drop.

Kirchoff's Second Law. KVL. Circa 1845.

G-

hrperkins · « **Reply #19 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:45:45 PM »

Oops - a kiwi and not an ausie ....... How bad form is that

?

Have not been to the south island but spent some time on the north island and have several UK friends who retired out there ....

Thanks again for the comments

Herb

KilroyOdin · « **Reply #20 on:** March 25, 2009, 08:09:56 PM »

Hi, VB has no input or output statement to gain access to the ports. You can add a .dll to your windows file that allows you to add the statements using a global variable in your code and you can create a nice looking user interface. I was able to create some code that tracks the sun using Visual Basic. After that RadioShack offers a PIC controller for about 80.00 US that allow for a easy circuit interface. Both Visual Basic and the RadioShack interface are well documented and you be able to get it working.

I would be happy to help if I can. I am trying to do the same. Hope to hear about your progress. Live in the present and plan for the future. Have a good one.

Rover · « **Reply #21 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:19:07 AM »

vb6 has com control... here is sample with code http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa231237(VS.60,loband).aspx

even the free visual studio 2008 express edition has it

http://www.microsoft.com/express/product/

KilroyOdin · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2009, 06:51:55 AM »

Hi, I was not aware of the serial port option, Thanks. Are there commands for the parallel port?

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Author Topic: looking for software (Read 2043 times)

KilroyOdin

KilroyOdin