Author Topic: 20 Foot PVC Tower  (Read 14250 times)

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taylorp035

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20 Foot PVC Tower
« on: July 15, 2009, 10:04:51 PM »
This afternoon, between my twin brother and I, we managed to get our 30" cnc bladed windmill on top of a 20 foot pvc pipe tower.  As you could imagine, holding a 15 lb windmill on top of a 10 foot pole while you are standing on top of a 4-wheeler in flip-flops is no easy task.  Here is the finished product.




During the last 3 days, I spent about 6 hours carving a new 20" blade for my mini motor.  My goal was to hit 3000 rpm at 10m/s, which after testing was certainly achievable.  The bad thing was that I chose maple as the material, which was way too hard use my spoke shave to cut the darn thing.  So I looked around and found a really sharp 1-1/4" wood chisel.  This worked much better, especially because the double blade was so small.  Here is the finished product, sorry that doesn't show much detail.




As you can see I decided to mount the new blade straight to the old windmill, giving it 4 blades.  I found that this helped start up speeds considerably.  After watching it for a while, I rotated the front blade so it lined up with the back blade, like an old biplane.




In a couple of minutes, I will have a video uploaded of it in action, and the how much the pole was bending.


On a different note, yesterday I was at Presque Isle State Park and I was watching their 23 foot bergy s 10kw windmill.  It was on a 120 foot tower.  Sometime later, I went into the building that it was hooked up and saw the power meter.  It was reading between 80-100 rpm at 500-900 watts.  I would guess the winds to be at about 10mph.


Just up the road, there is another bergy s 10kw windmill on the bluffs overlooking lake erie and i heard that it only produces half the power annually.  It must be at least 30 feet higher in the air, but the presque isle one is out by the water where the wind is much better.  They must only be a mile apart.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 10:04:51 PM by (unknown) »

fabricator

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2009, 05:10:09 PM »
Is that a Yamaha Big Bear?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 05:10:09 PM by fabricator »
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

ghurd

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 05:51:12 PM »
Dude!  I think there are 3???

Which one is by the outdoor Hot Dog / ice cream joint?  By where the roller coaster goes over SR832/Peninsula Dr.

Wife does the bike time trials there.

G-

« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 05:51:12 PM by ghurd »
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taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2009, 05:56:35 PM »
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 05:56:35 PM by taylorp035 »

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2009, 05:59:13 PM »
The Tom Ridge Center's windmill is closer to the 6th street / Peninsula Drive Intersection where the the OLD ice cream shop was and hot dog shop was and now stands a greek food place.  Do you live in erie ghurd?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 05:59:13 PM by taylorp035 »

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2009, 05:59:54 PM »
No, it is a Yahmaha 250 Timberwolf 4x4.  About 8-9 years old.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 05:59:54 PM by taylorp035 »

ghurd

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2009, 06:05:00 PM »
Youngstown.

Seems like we'll be up that way again in August for another time trial?

I can't keep them straight.

G-
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 06:05:00 PM by ghurd »
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taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2009, 06:06:41 PM »
Also, where is the 3rd windmill?  Is there a second one on the peninsula that I don't remember or have never connected the dots in my head?  There is a windmill out in edinboro and one that you can see from I-90 heading towards North East...
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 06:06:41 PM by taylorp035 »

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2009, 06:08:45 PM »
Youngstown, OH?  That's not too far away.  I live in McKean PA.  You should go to beach #2 where the Stull Center is and the windmill.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 06:08:45 PM by taylorp035 »

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2009, 06:12:57 PM »
Oh yeah I forgot, there is also a Skystream windmill at Penn State Behrend and one at the Bayfront Center on the bayfront parkway.  There is also a windmill at Slippery Rock University and one by the Greene Township building.


You can go to this link


http://www.fatspaniel.com/fat-spaniel-in-action/live-sites/


and type in "north coast energy systems"  for live data from 4 area sites.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 06:12:57 PM by taylorp035 »

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2009, 07:45:01 PM »
Here are some nice little graphs that I put together with the data that I got from my new brushless 3 phase generator.







« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 07:45:01 PM by taylorp035 »

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2009, 08:06:42 PM »
Here is a video of it running.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNWxNSODEB8

« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 08:06:42 PM by taylorp035 »

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2009, 08:16:57 PM »
Here is my youtube channel for easy access to all of my videos.


http://www.youtube.com/user/MrPizzaman09

« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 08:16:57 PM by taylorp035 »

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2009, 02:41:42 PM »
After about an hour of work, I finally got the performance data for my 30" CNC windmill, which would be the most relevant data.  My max output was 20 watts in the wind, which puts the blade rpm at about 2300 rpm.  My testing equipment was basically a drill press that went 250-3000 rpm.  I was a little wary of putting 8 amps into AA batteries at 3000 rpm.







« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 02:41:42 PM by taylorp035 »

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2009, 02:47:58 PM »
After figuring out the expected wind speeds based on a TSR of 8, the wind speeds should have been...


  1. rpm  - 7.25 mph
  2. rpm - 12.16 mph
  3. rpm - 16.73 mph
  4. rpm - 24.3 mph
  5. rpm - 33.4 mph


Therefore my 20 watt max came at about 26 mph.  Based on that the efficiency would be 4.65%.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 02:47:58 PM by taylorp035 »

fabricator

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2009, 03:51:11 PM »
Cool, I've got a big bear bought in 1988, I have never even had to change the plugs.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 03:51:11 PM by fabricator »
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2009, 04:21:13 PM »
Neither have we.  But once we ran it down to 1 cup of oil.  The guy at the repair place yelled at us for that.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2009, 04:21:13 PM by taylorp035 »

CeleronS

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2010, 12:41:26 PM »
I know topic is old, I just wanted ask, Has anybody have made higher tower form pvc pipes?

Rover

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2010, 12:55:32 PM »
With forces involved ... unless you intend to put guys every 12-24 inches ... why?  PVC pipe is not a structural material.. (unless filled with cement... but that's different)
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wolfie

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2010, 01:23:49 AM »
espescially the thinwall drainage style. he is just using it to run tests on a very small mill

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2010, 09:25:51 PM »
If you wanted to do 20-30 ft with guy wires, then yes, it can be done.  A 4-6ft machine would require a set of wires at the top and the middle.  The pvc is reasonably strong for a ~5-6 ft section above your wires.
One downside to the pvc pipe idea is that it can sometimes resonate like a musical instrument at night....  and it get weak in really hot weather, but I have never experienced that problem ( white helps too ).

Or if you really want a strong tower, try some of this stuff out   ;D

http://dragonplate.com/ecart/categories.asp?cID=79&p=3


or even better ( for those 20' monster windmills ):

http://dragonplate.com/ecart/categories.asp?cID=121


For about $100, I bet you could easily make a 20 ft Carbon Fiber tower.   All you have to do is wrap about 3 layers around a piece of foam ( the pink insulation works well ).  I guarantee it will be strong enough.  I have a piece of pink foam that was 1" x 2" x ~9 ft that has 2 layers on it and you can have 3 people jump on it in the middle while it is supported on both ends.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 09:29:13 PM by taylorp035 »

Rover

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2010, 12:11:55 AM »
Another thing about PVC pipe (the typical white stuff) is it is not UV stable, it will weaken and get brittle if exposed to direct sunlight for a prolonged period of time... (painting might help...but)
Rover
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Junkie

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2010, 04:55:47 AM »
Looks nice. You could fill it with lead, it's not need setting in the ground or any guy wires :D

MacGyver

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2010, 07:43:31 PM »
taylorp035

I'm new on this board, but I've been a plumber for 47 years and the last few comments are spot on.  Thin-wall PVC drainage pipe is not a "listed" structural material.  Even though the holes intended to let water seep into the pipe may act in part like trusses, the stuff is weak and will bend.  I'd put a wood pole (peeler log) down the middle and maybe lock it in place with some spray-on insulation foam. 

Guy wires are going to be a must also.  It appears in your video that the pole is already bending in the wind.  Guy wires will cure that.

The comment about PVC being vulnerable to UV degradation is no laughing matter either.  Paint the outside of your tower with just about any exterior paint and it'll cure the problem for a few years -- at least until the paint peels off.  If you don't protect the exterior, it will first "check" then crack for sure.

One last thing:  Be careful on that quad or your windmill tower, painted or not may outlast you!  Those things tip over when you least expect it (ever).


 .  .  .  .  .  Mac

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taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2010, 08:25:14 PM »
Thanks MacGyver for your concerns.

At 10ft, a PVC pipe will work for a 4ft windmill if you dig into the ground ~3ft, but anything bigger/taller will require some more rigidity. 
As for the holes, it was free and laying in the woods.  The holes are nice though to tie your guy wires through.

As for my video and the bending, that was last year.  I later added one guy wire and just last week I added a second one.  Plus I re-dug the hole a little deeper + added some rocks around the base.

Quote
Be careful on that quad or your windmill tower, painted or not may outlast you!  Those things tip over when you least expect it (ever).
The 4-wheeler?  I have never rolled it before, but I have been thrown off it a few times, once got it on one front wheel for 20 ft (I had a tire track to prove it).
As for the tower falling over, it never has.  Last spring I was watching it spin unloaded in 40ish mph winds to see if it would blow up.  I had the camera rolling for about an hour at 100 yards away to see if I could catch it.  It must of been doing 2,000 rpm.  I probably could of had 300-500 watts out of it.

Perry1

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2010, 04:52:00 PM »
I don't know why we are still having this discussion or why anyone would want to consider using pvc pipe for a 20' tower. No offense to you Taylor and it is not my intention to antagonize. I understand, you found it and you used it. So be it. But for someone else to want to adopt the design is wrong.
All the warnings are there, bad strength, bad UV protection, need for excessive guys, etc. For a 20ft tower you can use $20 worth of 1.5" steel pipe (that's what I did) or even 2x4's jointed together would be much better. So it's not a cost thing. In fact, I'm surprised I don't dee many smaller towers like this built out of wood.

Perry

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2010, 10:52:22 AM »
I scrapped metal for a while and came by a few or more portable basketball hoops.  The poles that I got ranged from 3.5" (which is the mast for my 16" car rim mill) down to 2".  I plan on making a tower out of this stuff.  even though it's strong stuff it's relatively light.  Well untill you put 3 of them together.  It took 3 people to stand it up.

DFIII

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2010, 09:44:38 AM »
my biggest concern is that Taylor has his rig set up on a right of way for some power company.
if a maintenance crew, with an attitude, comes by when your not around ,they might tear it up and truck it to a land fill.

taylorp035

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Re: 20 Foot PVC Tower
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2010, 08:46:49 PM »
Quote
I don't know why we are still having this discussion or why anyone would want to consider using pvc pipe for a 20' tower. No offense to you Taylor and it is not my intention to antagonize. I understand, you found it and you used it. So be it. But for someone else to want to adopt the design is wrong.

I agree, I am not sure why people keep bringing this thread to the top.  There are 100's of better options out there that are cheap or free.


Quote
my biggest concern is that Taylor has his rig set up on a right of way for some power company.
if a maintenance crew, with an attitude, comes by when your not around ,they might tear it up and truck it to a land fill.

True, my power company flies  over the lines every month with a helicopter, so they know what's going on.  Last year they came through with chainsaws and big equipment and made the path of trees 10 feet wider, which made a lot of people very, very angry.  They cut a lot of trees that were marked not to be cut.  My windmill was not up at the time when they came through.  I do have a video of one of the machines that they used to make "wood chips" out of the 1000000000000000's of branches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3oDW9jJTAE