Author Topic: a question on towers  (Read 1008 times)

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Len Von Speedcult

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a question on towers
« on: May 12, 2006, 01:56:44 PM »
Has anyone ran across any data/ engineering drawings relating to safe acceptable

specs for towers ? For instance , using a steel pipe monopole design and plugging

in the follwing values, 1. Rotor area  2. Height  3. actual blade area ( I would think a 3 blade design would cause less stress than an old aeromotor type design?)

I've seen towers used for basic signage where they're sleeved in a telescopic way,

from 12" to 10"  to 8 " etc. Foundations required ?? I've seen pics on otherpower

of enough towers resembling pretzels and really want to spare myself that. Also,

has anyone seen/used the multi-sided sleeved towers they make for cell phone transmissions ? I know a company named Valmont makes them and one is on Ebay now.

They're just tapered and each section slides over the lower section. BIG BUCKS even

on Ebay. What wind load are most towers designed to meet ? thanks, len
« Last Edit: May 12, 2006, 01:56:44 PM by (unknown) »

SparWeb

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Re: a question on towers
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2006, 04:28:18 PM »
Towers for wind turbines have two important properties: they hold a dangerous thing, and they hold it in a dangerous position.


That is why professionals should design towers, and many jurisdictions (especially where there are lots of people) don't let you put one up without an engineer's stamp.


If you don't know where to start, you won't learn how on an internet forum.  Sorry, man.  This is the part where books and bucks are required.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2006, 04:28:18 PM by SparWeb »
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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Len Von Speedcult

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Re: a question on towers
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2006, 06:33:23 AM »
Towers for wind turbines have two important properties: they hold a dangerous thing, and they hold it in a dangerous position.


wow..thats a news flash..I had no idea..thanks for the amazing insight into that.


If you don't know where to start, you won't learn how on an internet forum.  Sorry, man.  This is the part where books and bucks are required.


Sorry MAN. I didn't think I was the first person in the world to put up a pipe  tower up and therefore  there may be  some historical data somewhere collected over the years by someone for a given scenerio. You really could have spared me the  condescending reply if you really didn't have an answer for the posed question.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2006, 06:33:23 AM by Len Von Speedcult »

Len Von Speedcult

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Re: a question on towers
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2006, 06:37:50 AM »
by the way, I did finding existing engineered drawings for a 80 foot monopole

design complete with required foundation and designed for 110 wind load.

Even if I have to get it reviewed and restamped..it'll be a whole cheaper than starting from scratch.  
« Last Edit: May 13, 2006, 06:37:50 AM by Len Von Speedcult »

SparWeb

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Re: a question on towers
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2006, 01:33:30 PM »
I know, it sounded like that to me when I wrote it, but you didn't sound like you knew where to start.  Sleeved antenna poles aren't the place to start looking for ideas.  Five questions in one... another bad sign.


It's been my experience posting on this and other technical forums, that questions posed that way are just fishing for info without doing the leg-work.  That may not have been the intent, so maybe try asking one type of question per thread.


No offence intended, and apologies for that which was taken.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 01:33:30 PM by SparWeb »
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

dinges

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Re: a question on towers
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2006, 01:54:12 PM »
Steven,


I had typed out a very similar reply to yours but hit delete instead of 'post'. Thought it wouldn't be received in the spirit it was written, just as your reply was. Some people only like to hear the things they want to hear. I nevertheless fully agree with you on the subject.


Sometimes I read questions (like this one) and get the very distinct impression that, the way the questions are asked, any meaningful answer will be totally unusable to the original poster because he lacks the knowledge.


In my response (that never got posted) I went into detail about fundation, soil types, wind loads, average and maximum, safety factors, placement/location, turbulence, maintenance/repair, risk to the surroundings, etc. One could write a book, answering those 'simple' questions that were asked.


The way a question (or: what question) is asked, can give a lot of information on someone's ideas, knowledge and plans.


There's a reason we have highly schooled (trained?) engineers. If a piece of software could do it all, I'd be without employment. Software, at best, is just a tool. Putting a monkey behind a PC with AutoCAD will not result in good mechanical designs (unless it's a clever monkey to begin with).


Peter.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 01:54:12 PM by dinges »
“Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.” (W. von Braun)

dinges

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Re: a question on towers
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2006, 02:00:22 PM »
And when someone mentions the idea of using antenna-towers for windmills I really get the shivers...


To the original poster: I don't know what plans you have found (I have many plans too, of various objects. Some are good, some aren't worth the paper they're written on), but I hope you exercise more judgement than just having 'a plan' that you can copy. Hope you (can) get it approved & stamped for YOUR purpose and situation.


Good luck.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 02:00:22 PM by dinges »
“Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.” (W. von Braun)

SparWeb

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Re: a question on towers
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2006, 04:39:11 PM »
Dinges,


Thanks for the vote of support.  I was aware that my comment would not be well received.  Perhaps some others who read it disagreed with me, too.


But I have participated in many a web-forum beyond this one, and I have learned to stop before answering when the question is too broad, or there are too many jumbled into one post.  Any reply to the original poster won't likely be satisfying, even if he did have something specific in mind.  There's also the broader audience to consider, too.  The postings of the more respected members of this site may or may not be taken as gospel, but the experts can't tell, when they write, who will read it.  After only a few months of active participation at this site, I've already noticed folks who obeyed advice received over the internet, to their disapointment.


To me, building turbines is only satisfying because I am learning everything I can, and designing everything from the most basic of principles.  I like doing that, but I don't expect everyone to be like me.  


In other words, I can give you free advice, but it's only worth what you paid for it!

« Last Edit: May 17, 2006, 04:39:11 PM by SparWeb »
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

Len Von Speedcult

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Re: a question on towers
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2006, 09:30:50 PM »
Dinges, I didn't find "plans" per se . What I found were complete stamped engineered drawings for a 80' tall tower that held a 12'X 16' flat sign that weighed 2200 lbs. What I have planned was something 20' shorter and 1500 lbs lighter. Soil conditions are the same. A sign company near me archives/catalogs all their custom designed installations (they have several hundred on file.) I was able to find something

well oversized and something could I fabricate. Of course I'll have everything

looked over by an engineer. I just didn't see the point in having an engineer start

from scratch when I knew something built with the very similiar specs most likely already exists. If anyone else wants to start from scratch ..go for it. They told me engineering costs range from $1000-$5000 and even more for unique jobs. Having

something reviewed by the guy who did the original calculations with my application

in mind I was quoted $450. I thinking I'm covering my bases more than most.  


len

« Last Edit: May 17, 2006, 09:30:50 PM by Len Von Speedcult »

dinges

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Re: a question on towers
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2006, 06:01:06 AM »
Len,


Good to hear all this. It wasn't the impression I got from your first post(s), but you've definitely put some thought into it. In fact, I think more than the average guy who puts up a windmill.


Peter.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2006, 06:01:06 AM by dinges »
“Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.” (W. von Braun)

SparWeb

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Re: a question on towers
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2006, 12:41:47 PM »
Len, that's more like it.  I also didn't know how much effort you've already put into the project.


If you want to do more research on the topic yourself, I bet you could find building codes and engineering manuals at your local library.  You might get better results from a university library than a city public library, but I'd try both.


Another useful document:


Bergey tilt-up Tower manual


Good luck.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2006, 12:41:47 PM by SparWeb »
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca