Author Topic: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice  (Read 2776 times)

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AbyssUnderground

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First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« on: August 18, 2006, 08:53:02 PM »
Hello all,


Im looking to build a small wind turbine to charge a 12v battery and in turn power my laptop. My inverter with the laptop connected draws about 4-10A depending on what its doing and if its charging the battery. Now I only have 6w of solar and with the winter coming its not going to work too well.


I need a wind turbine thats capable of running the laptop as much as possible without draining the battery at all, so basically meeting the demands of the inverter (but it will be connected to the battery (obviously)).


What sort of size should I am for? Ive got a small stepper motor that when spun at 300rpm will give around 21v at 40mA, which is nothing, and thats all the phases with bridge rectifiers on them.


Ive read and read and read topics on this board about making turbines and Im still having difficulty understand how to build it in terms of magnets, wire size, number of turns etc.


Any help is appriciated.


Thanks,


Andy.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 08:53:02 PM by (unknown) »

andyman5002

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2006, 03:14:07 PM »
Why not try a motor conversion, might be what your looking for. Do some reading on here and see what you think.


Andy

« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 03:14:07 PM by andyman5002 »

commanda

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2006, 03:20:17 PM »
Many laptops will work just fine if run directly off 12 volts, though they won't necessarily charge their internal batteries.


Or you can get a step-up converter which will output 15-20 volts (usually adjustable) with a cigarette lighter plug input designed to run laptops in cars.


This will be far more efficient than using a much higher powered inverter to get to mains potential, and then the laptops transformer to get back down to it's required voltage, which is typically 15-20 volts.


This assumes your laptop has an external supply, which you don't actually state.


Amanda

« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 03:20:17 PM by commanda »

asheets

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2006, 03:38:59 PM »
A basic Ametek PMM conversion would work pretty well for a laptop that uses a battery for filtering purposes (like an HP or Compaq).  I'd do it with an older Dell or Toshiba, but probably not with a newer Dell until the recall is complete.  My Ametek setup would probably extend the runtime of my XPi for a few more hours without an inverter, and my solar setup does extend the runtime of the computer for about an hour (I only have 5W worth of panels, and my batteries are poor).
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 03:38:59 PM by asheets »

AbyssUnderground

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2006, 03:50:42 PM »
Thanks for the advice so far.


Ive looked on ebay for Ametek but I havent seen a single one. My battery is a 17.2Ah SLA and as such wont power the laptop for long anyway.


I know it would be worth using the 12v but its an expensive laptop and I don't want to risk damaging it in trying so Im only going to use the inverter.


Ill take a look at some motors and possibly see if I can get hold of one. In terms of motor conversions whats the best size motor (specs if you can tell me) to get as my Dad can get hold of a fair range.


Thanks.

« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 03:50:42 PM by AbyssUnderground »

maker of toys

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2006, 04:00:36 PM »
to echo some of the curmudgeons here:


you've asked a question roughly equivilent to:

"I think I need a wheeled vehicle.  It needs to travel 20-80 MPH. I have a bike, and I tried putting a chainsaw motor on it but it didn't work."


ok, you've done one of the important steps; determined your peak load.  Now you'll need to figure out what your total watthour/amphour requirement is;  I doubt that you run the laptop 24x7.  So spring for a 'kill-o-watt' or equivalent and figure that out. average it over, say, a week. . . or better a month.


the second step is to determine your wind.  this will probably require an anemometer (on a tower to get it up where your mill will live)  and some sort of data logger (which can be made with a bicycle speedometer/computer and some creativity)  or a week or more of real careful monitoring and documentation on your part. Depeding on the NWS or the local weather station will just frustrate you unless you're the local reporting station. steps 1 and 2 can occur concurrently.


the third step is to do a bunch of reading (buying Hugh's books from our hosts is probably a good step 3a.)


Step 4 is then to calculate what your mill should look like (blade profile and length is determined by windspeed, alternator cut-in and desired power output, but alternator cut-in is influenced by voltage, and you'll need to spend some thought on what the alternators' power curve will look like so you can compare it to the power available in your winds with your blade area.)  People here will fall all over themselves to help you when you have lots of data to base calculations on.


As an example:

If your computer use is like mine (~100 watthours a day) and you can afford the batteries, one of Hugh's 4' machines on a 30' tower, set up for a moderate cut-in, moderate current, and a conservative furl, backed with a couple of good golf-cart batteries and your existing solar array, will handle the computer just fine.  BUT: your milage may vary. Do the calculations and the measurements!  


Alternatively, a properly sized set of blades on an ametek motor might cover your needs. . .(but you need to know what those needs are, and again with the wind information to define 'properly sized blades.'


Have fun;


Dan

« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 04:00:36 PM by maker of toys »

thefinis

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2006, 04:25:57 PM »
You are not looking correctly as there are usually several available. Check the home and garden section with a search for wind generator or dc motor. Here is a link to a list for a seller who gives 30 day return option and usually has several available.

http://home.search.ebay.com/_Home-Garden_W0QQcatrefZC12QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsacatZ11700QQsassZ
ssinc1500


Finis

« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 04:25:57 PM by thefinis »

AbyssUnderground

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2006, 04:46:18 PM »
Im in the UK and as such they are no good. There are never any on when I search for "ametek".
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 04:46:18 PM by AbyssUnderground »

hiker

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2006, 05:46:09 PM »
hey i know--dual purpose set up--work some fat of your a--  at the same time..

hit your local thrift shop and pick up a treadmill--take the motor out and install it on a exersize bike[rectifie the output]...heres a shot of mine.

works great for jump starting my motorhome --or lighting up the camp ground

« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 05:46:09 PM by hiker »
WILD in ALASKA

thefinis

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2006, 06:19:17 PM »
Sorry Tom I know I said I would only post about things for sale in the classifieds but here I go again.


Abyss you are right there is very little to choose from in the UK. I found one dc motor and it ends soon. Keep looking use the advance search which lets you set country. Here is the item # 190018497471  but they give no warranty and don't give rpms.

GBP 75.00(Approximately US $142.05)


WIND POWER TURBINE GENERATOR DYNAMO

UNUSED NEW DYNAMO (Not Alternator) PRODUCING 12v. DC CURRENT AT 28 AMPS. APPROX. 330 WATTS. ( MAXIMUM 14v. DC CURRENT AT 30 AMPS APPROX. 420 WATTS)

WHEN FITTED WITH APPROPRIATE WIND DRIVER BLADES ( NOT SUPPLIED) THIS DYNAMO WILL CHARGE 12v. AUTOMOTIVE BATTERIES JOINED IN PARALLEL.

THE SHAFT IS KEYED (WITH 2 KEYS) AND THREADED BOTH ENDS.

HAS STUD/NUT +VE and -VE OUTLET TERMINALS.

THE UNIT WEIGHS 7 Kgs. / 15 Lbs.

TOTAL OVERALL LENGTH 255mm. / 10"

UNIT DIAMETER 100mm. / 4"

ROTATING SHAFT DIAMETER 15mm. / 0.6"

THE DYNAMO IS VERY STRONGLY MADE WITH HEAVY DUTY BEARINGS.


INCLUDED IS A FREE CD ROM PACKED WITH WIND GENERATION INFORMATION AND PLANS FOR DIY CONSTRUCTORS.


from Midlands, United Kingdom


You might be better off to email one of the US sellers and ask if they would make an exception and give you a shipping price.


Finis

« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 06:19:17 PM by thefinis »

stephent

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2006, 08:41:13 PM »
Good thoughts Hiker..

You could even convert/hack a conventional bike into a recumbent type--take off the back/front wheels (stick on a better fitting more comfortable seat!--Hiker--you have to be a glutton for punishment!! that "seat" don't look too cushy to me!--hi--hi---plastic chair seat maybe?) and compact it down to fit under a desk. Pedaling while surfin! And have a backup system to the solar.  But those flat tension belt (or the wind/fan type) pedal wheels and an automotive serpentine belt look like they might have possibilities used together.  

Even using a stock (small) alternator off of a car and a rheostat control for the feilds would work. You would have to pedal harder to overcome the loss of feild excitation though without making a conversion/mag type.

If used a bunch,you could give Lance Armstrong a run for his money in a year or two!

 Lots of possibilities. Gang 4 or 5 old 5 1/4" floppy drive motors on the bike?? Go to a local Computer/Networking place and ask if they have any old LARGE laser printers they are junking out--there's at least one fair sized brush type DC motor or even PM types (usually these) in each one--usually about 20/30 volts at 4 or so amps rating.

The big laser printers--3 or 4 foot tall and heavy as heck--real old early 90's or late 80's technology stuff. Of the 2 I have ran across and tried--both took a few rpm's (500 or more rpm) to hit 12+ volts, but BOTH used a flat belt drive as stock--(those flat belt things mentioned above).

Using a wind genny without a lot of supporting stuff--design--charge/dump controller--more batteries--dump loads for such a small task is a bit pricey.

But it depends on your future plans also as to pay now or later if going more wind usage in the future...
« Last Edit: August 18, 2006, 08:41:13 PM by stephent »

andyman5002

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2006, 07:12:37 AM »
Try finding a 3 phase motor if your going to try to convert it. I suggest you do some reading of Zubbly's work on here. Read everything he has written and you should have a pretty good idea of what your up against. I recently embarked on converting a 3HP 3 Phase motor I picked up on ebay for £10. So if your having difficulty getting one check out ebay. I would imagine you would need a 1HP motor for your needs maybe a bit smaller. Maybe you should try converting a smaller one to get the hang of it and see what you think.


Andy

« Last Edit: August 19, 2006, 07:12:37 AM by andyman5002 »

asheets

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2006, 12:42:50 PM »
Try this search -- it always gives me hits, so I limit it by price as well:  http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=so&sbrftog=1&from=R10&fstype=1&catr
ef=C6&satitle=ametek+motor+-lamb+-rotron+-controller+-blower+-Vacuum+-upright+-uprights&saca
t=-1%26catref%3DC6&floc=1&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&sadis=200&fpos=80537&sacur=1&
ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=3&fsoo=1
« Last Edit: August 21, 2006, 12:42:50 PM by asheets »

asheets

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Re: First wind turbine: I need a bit of advice
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2006, 12:44:09 PM »
Sorry... didn't notice your location.  Try this:  http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=so&sbrftog=1&from=R10&fstype=1&catr
ef=C6&satitle=ametek+motor+-lamb+-rotron+-controller+-blower+-Vacuum+-upright+-uprights&saca
t=-1%26catref%3DC6&floc=1&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=80537&ftrt=1&f
trv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=3%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coent
rypage=search


Plus, I have several spares if you want to pay shipping from Colorado.

« Last Edit: August 21, 2006, 12:44:09 PM by asheets »