Author Topic: my variable pitch hubs  (Read 3173 times)

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makenzie71

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my variable pitch hubs
« on: October 02, 2006, 04:06:08 AM »
There's been some talk about variable pitch hubs lately on various scales of machines.  I'd like to know why more people don't build these hubs themselve's?  Well everyone I ask says that they're too complicated to build and looking at some of the pictures you guys post, it's no wonder many are intimidated by it.  All those weights and levers and bearings and arms and hinges...bleh...that stuff's too complicated for our generally simple mills.


Now with the lack of modern toolery I can't make very pretty gadgets, but the ones I make are pretty effective. They do make a bit of mess and require what I feel is monthly maintanance, but they work.  They're a very simple screw and spring setup.


Essentially how my pitch machine is built is I take a six inch long piece of 1" OD 3/4" ID tubing and cut a 1/4" slot down it's side, diagonally, starting one half an inch from one end and ending half an inch from the other.  I do this along a 90* chord...that's to say that if both ends were parallel circles, the slot started at 90* in reference to one and ended at 180* in reference to the other.  This is the backbone of the machine and this is where you decide how much pitch you want your blades to be able to tackle...in my opinion a 90* slot is perfect because it will allow your blades to rotate 90*.  My blades start out at at a 20*, which means in high winds, instead of a furling tail, my eight foot and bigger props reverse the pitch to fight the wind...a much more effective brake than pointing the blades directly into the wind and far superior in my opinion to a furling tail (no need, the blades' rpm automatically maintanes).


The actual mechanism is far simpler than the "sleeve" above.  It's an 8" long, 1" OD steel rod with a 1/4" hole drilled 1/2" from one end.  You insert this rod in the sleeve and hammer a 4140 tempered dowl into the hole, through the sleeve's slot.  I then grind the dowl flush with the sleeve's surface.  Then grease the hell out of it.


Then, along the hub, front and back, at intervals corresponding with the number of blades, there's eye bolts.  There's one on both sides of the blades, about 3" away from their mounting surfaces.  A spring is then connected between each eyebolt on the hub and it's opposite on the blades.


The driving force for this machine is the inertia of the spinning blades (faster it spins, the stronger the blades pull away from the hub), and the resistance of the springs.


The blades clamp into plates I welded at the end of the steel insert...1/8" mild on top and bottom of the blades seems to work.  I'm thinking of welding the blades' eyebolts to these clamps for the sake of keeping the hub completely contained.


So far the bigger one I built (8ft prop) seems to work ok but I've only seen it at about 3 different pitch areas...only seen about 20mph winds since I put it up.  I haven't seen any of the 50mph winds that inspired the invention...after the force of the blades ripped one hub apart...so it's hard to say if the springs I used were wise.  It's somewhat difficult to machine-spin an 8ft prop to 750rpm lol.  Trying to think of a way to do it without the blades attached if anyone has any ideas.


Screen-door spring segments seem to be working well on my 36" and 24" hubs.


I don't have pics at the moment but I'll pull the 8-footer down tomorrow and snap some...hopefully I've got a good mental painted for you guys here, though.  Any thoughts?

« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 04:06:08 AM by (unknown) »

makenzie71

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2006, 10:22:06 PM »
...tired.  typo...


The "sleeve" is made of 1.25" OD and 1" ID mild steel tubing, and the insert is 1" steel.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 10:22:06 PM by makenzie71 »

scottsAI

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2006, 10:53:13 PM »
Hello makenzie71,

Interesting ideas. I will wait for a picture. Too late to think!


By replacing the blades with their weight, you should be able to spin it to test the pitch controls operation! Just don't do it while I'm in the building:-) OK!


I am working on an active pitch controller for 24' turbine.


Did not understand how the blades are attached and allowed to rotate.

Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 10:53:13 PM by scottsAI »

makenzie71

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2006, 11:10:00 PM »
Tried to whip up a little drawing...the sleeve it's self is welded to the hub.  The hub is simply two flat discs sandwiched together around the sleeves.


« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 11:10:00 PM by makenzie71 »

kamikaze

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2006, 01:16:55 AM »
Hi Makenzie71,

The main downside of your mechanism, I think, is that the blades can change pitch independently. Even if each blade was exactly the same weight and the springs were identical, etc., the effect of gravity will cause the lowest blade to extend and twist first. Probably the worst aspect of this is the imbalance caused by by the blades not extending exactly together, and secondly the effect of the corresponding different blade pitch. However, this major problem should be quite easy to resolve, by linking the blades so that they can only act in unison.


Sorry about the diagram, but this is one simple way to link the blades so they can only move in unison. Anyway good luck with it.

« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 01:16:55 AM by kamikaze »

makenzie71

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2006, 01:27:20 AM »
If the change in wind speed is gradual then the prop doesn't havea  problem...but I have noticed on days that go from reletive calm to 25+mph gusts there's quite a bit of time of imbalance before all the blades realign.  I've been working on a linked system something like what you drew out there...my problem being that most links that allow for attachment "conveniently" allow too much free play or bind easily.  As with any other simple machines, it's likely best for simple turbines and will likely be a good base for a complicated machine, and little more.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 01:27:20 AM by makenzie71 »

Flux

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2006, 02:29:53 AM »
I don't think the scheme is viable without synchronising the blades. You seem to have been lucky or are prepared to tolerate serious vibration.


Kamikaze's adaption of your scheme is interesting and should work. It is essentially the Jacobs blade pitch unit with your spiral slots added. The jacobs synchronising yoke changed the pitch without the slotted pins.


Judging by the vibration caused when a conventional prop is 1mm of centre from where it is balanced, it takes a bit of nerve to chance unsynchronised blades that can slide inches.

Flux

« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 02:29:53 AM by Flux »

rpcancun

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2006, 10:50:52 PM »
« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 10:50:52 PM by rpcancun »

makenzie71

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2006, 11:48:41 PM »
cool...too bad pics of the 10ft machine didn't make it up...


This is what I intend to build as of right now:



I thought I had this posted last night but I have no idea what happened to it...


anyway, something similar to what's posted above, but I'm trying to keep it compact.  The hub will be 10" in diameter, made of old saw blades, actually.  The sleeves will be 4" long and made of 1" OD aircraft aluminum tubing. The inserts will be 6" long and made of 1" OD mild steel bar with eyes welded to one end.  The triangle piece in the middle will be made of two 3/8" pieces of mild steel tacked together, with eye's welded to the corners.  The connecting rods will be 4140 rolled steel with eyes at either end.  The connecting rods will be bolted to the center piece and blade mounts by simple bolts.  This will make for some "slop" but I doubt it'll have much effect on performance.  The blades will be 48" long, weighing nearly 2lbs each.


I'm looking for more ways to simplify this, though, if anyone has any ideas.

« Last Edit: October 02, 2006, 11:48:41 PM by makenzie71 »

kamikaze

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2006, 04:15:49 AM »
Hi again,

It looks to me like your idea will work.Just remember to allow a pivoting joint between the triangle and the sliding insert, to allow for the changing pitch.



Cheers

« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 04:15:49 AM by kamikaze »

rpcancun

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2006, 09:23:02 AM »
What keeps the blades from falling out to to the feathered position?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 09:23:02 AM by rpcancun »

makenzie71

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2006, 10:36:29 AM »
Crap..I hate when problems like that don't present themselves until after things are built lol.  At first I had intended to use a ball-n-socket joint, which would allow for rotation, but had to abandon it because the tolerances wouldn't have allowed it to work.  I need to start looking for another joint that can rotate like you've illustrated.


What keeps the blades from falling out to to the feathered position?


Springs.  Its way up ther in the first post.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 10:36:29 AM by makenzie71 »

rpcancun

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2006, 07:31:35 PM »
We Like pictures!!


A pic is worth 1000 words,....lemme see how your mounting your springs.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 07:31:35 PM by rpcancun »

makenzie71

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2006, 07:38:59 PM »
I'll have the build process of the new one fully documented.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 07:38:59 PM by makenzie71 »

RP

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Re: my variable pitch hubs
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2006, 05:46:03 PM »
For tough rotating joints browse the aisles in a farm/tractor supply place.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2006, 05:46:03 PM by RP »