Building Permit?

[Perry8]

Greetings,

I sent an inquiry to the county and I didn't get the response I expected.  Here is my inquiry and their response:

I'm looking for information on the use of wind turbines in *** County.  

What I propose to do is experimental.  I want to build a small wind turbine with a blade span of 4 feet and a 20 foot tower.  If this works out then I would build a larger one with a 10 foot blade sweep and a 30 foot tower.

These would be for charging a bank of batteries.  The goal is to keep my

medical equipment running during an extended power outage.   This project

would be at the hobby level, not a permanent structure.  It would not be visible by any neighbors.  We are on 2 and ½ acre lot at ******. Please direct me to the proper authority.

The reply:

Good Morning,

I spoke with *****, DCD Plans Reviewer, who indicated that with your Building Permit application we would also need a set of "engineered" plans that are in accordance with ASCE 7 and IBC Chapter 16 for Wind Design and Load.  Also you would need to apply for an Electrical Permit through the Washington State Dept of Labor and Industries.

Ok so my question is do I need to jump through these county hoops to experiment with wind power as a hobby?  Can I get around this?

Thanks in advance,

Perry

[stephent]

Open a can of worms and you find "worms" inside.

Put up small genny--and tell um it's an engineering study for the blueprint drawing and engineering accessment since it's new technology and never been done before...

If ya can't dazzle them with brilliance--baffle them with politics/legal mombo-jumbo.

 Obviously they don't have a clue about what you are asking--energy/power generation permit?

Should have left the can un-opened...

[Perry8]

Yup your right.  Thought I'd see what they had to say.  I haven't even started the project yet so by the time I'm flying they will have forgotten about me.  I hope.  Thanks for the reply.

Perry

[wdyasq]

Yes sir, that is to power my my medical equipment in case of a power outage. It may be a matter of life or death for me. I will be happy to take it down. Just persent me with a document that requires me to remove something that may be a matter of life or death. My survivors can deal with you. Thank you for your concern.......

Ron

[stephent]

Now this will work! short and sweet and to the point.

Ron--you are a genius. (just don't let this go to your head--that makes your hat fit funny)

[terry5732]

You need to first look at the dollar amount of non-compliance v. the cost of a violation. Usually  the former has no real deterence. Build and then see what happens. If trouble - go to the local paper with the story of "Local government seeks to quash renewable energy".

[Countryboy]

I'd recommend you actually read the laws.

Of course the tax collectors will tell you that you need to pay for all kinds of permits and taxes.  Ask them to show you the law requiring you to obtain a permit to have a small wind turbine that is NOT grid tied.

Odds are, the regulations don't apply to you.

I did a quick google search, and found this:

RCW 19.28.091

Licensing -- Exemptions.

(2) No license under the provisions of this chapter shall be required from any utility because of work in connection with the installation, repair, or maintenance of the following:

(c) Lines and wires, together with ancillary apparatus, and equipment, owned by a customer that is an independent power producer who has entered into an agreement for the sale of electricity to a utility and that are used in transmitting electricity from an electrical generating unit located on premises used by such customer to the point of interconnection with the utility's system.

(If the utility doesn't have to have a permit to work on your grid tied windmill, why would you have to have a permit to have a non-grid tied mill?)

(7) This chapter does not require an electrical contractor license if:

(c) the value of the electrical work does not exceed thirty thousand dollars.

A windmill tower isn't a building/structure, so the claim that you need a building permit is bogus.  They assumed this is valued at over $30,000, since you asked them questions - and they ONLY deal with projects over $30K.

Just out of curiousity, why would you ask government to direct you to the proper authority for getting permission to do a Constitutionally Protected Natural Right?  Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are both applicable here.

[tecker]

Stay under 50 volts and you'll be able to use low voltade require ments and as long as the codes are met your good to establish generation . Worst case you'll require an inspection . Nec and locale regs for low voltage installations are avalable pay attention to battery installations and wireing regs . Over build and over protect with fire protection (conduit, over size wire ,fire extinguisher)  .

[thefinis]

See if permits are required to erect windmills that pump water. Odds are that a windmill is okay but that you would need a permit to drill. If windmills are allowed and you have a well then you should be fine. I bet the regs are not exacting on types of windmills and as long as you are saying that this will pump water someday.....

Your answers may depend more on who handles the question than on the actual laws. Often the supervisor will be more likely to say something is ok before one of the underlings. Unerlings are more apt to quote all kinds of rules and regs that may or may not apply. Some do this just to show their power, some to impress the boss with their knowledge of red tape, some out of fear of making a mistake. There are some who bend over backwards to help and if you find one of these they will often help even in areas out of their normal scope.

You should be okay especially for experimenting unless someone complains. Out of sight is out of mind. This makes for a problem in that your mill will need clean wind and that means eventually it will be above the trees and in view of neighbors etc. I like your idea of using wind but it would seem that a battery bank with a charger(solar or grid) would work well without the many problems of variable wind generation.

Finis

[Volvo farmer]

Somebody told me once in a situation similar to this, "It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission".

[bj]

    Perry--you are in Washinton, I am in Alberta, Canada, but the

problems with the local permitting are the same.  Got the same answers,

and finally just talked to my closest neighbor,(approx 1000 feet) and

said if there was a problem, (noise) I will make a change.  I have checked

with him, on several occasions, and he thinks it is funny, as they

can't hear it.  So to cut it a bit shorter, I just ignored local

permitting. That might come back and bight me,  but been two years,

and No Problems.

   bj

[sh123469]

I have to say...never ask the government criminals about anything.  They are there to extort every bit of funding possible from you and to illegally restrict your rights which are protected under the law and our constitution.

USC Title 18, 241 & 242 are there to protect your free exercise of your rights.  The US Supreme court has already determined, many years ago, that in order to own something, you have to have full use and control of it.  

Any interference with your full use and control of your property (erecting a windmill) is a violation of US Code and punishable by up to $5000 in fines and 5 years, 10 in both cases if a death occurs as the result of the interference.

Now, with that said, good luck finding a judge anywhere in this country who doesn't have a conflict of interest (he is deciding a case involving his employer) in hearing the case and who will actually enforce the law.  If there was one, he wouldn't be there for long nor would any of the government employed criminals in the area.

Your best bet, like others have said is to do your construction without worry since you are in the right and see what they do.  Be very careful and overbuild.  You are liable for any damages that this might cause should something break.

[ghurd]

Rant?

The problem is you ASKED.

(It's not grid tied. It's not permanent. It's not visible. It's a hobby.)

And asked people who have NO idea what you are talking about.

Their job is to issue permits.  They will find a permit that they will decide you need.

Not that their rules are not a good idea.

G-

[zap]

ghurd is right, the problem is you asked but that is water under the bridge.  Volvo farmer is also correct, it's easier to get forgiveness than it is permission and I think you can still apply this to your situation.

Go ahead and build it.  If it can't be seen by neighbors then chances are no one else will see it including county employees.

Build it strong and if anyone asks about it, tell them it's art.  If they ask about the wires running to it tell them you're attempting to power it so it can turn when there's no wind.

Or plant an apple seedling a couple of dozen feet away from the mill if you don't have any fruit trees now and tell them the mill will be used to blow a breeze on the tree to keep possible frost off the possible blooms thereby saving a possible fruit crop.

hehe...what a great country!

[asheets]

I'd have to agree with this... why even ask permission when I'd be willing to bet that there are no laws covering what you are proposing... especially in a situation where the county probably won't find out without somebody telling them.

[vawtman]

Love that comment Stephant.Ive had inspectors almost trip over violations and nothing happens but if you somehow point their attention to a possible fault.Oh goodness.Keep your mouth shut and do what you want then act stupid.Has i do normally.LOL

[RUFUS]

Tell um you want to throw up something with these on it-

[RayW]

If you think that you can put up a tower in your back yard that won't be seen by others than you should should take a look at "Google Earth". I have a 75ft. ham radio antenna tower in may back yard and it shows up very well on Google Earth.

Just go to Google Earth's site and enter your adress, you may be supprised at what you can see.

"BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING"

                                  RayW WB4MQM

[Perry8]

Thanks for all the comments.  I had already decided to go ahead with this but your comments have given me some insite.

Thank you,

Perry

[scottsAI]

Hello Perry8,

FYI;

The down side of not having a permit:

They can make you take it down

Even if it meets permit requirements.

Also fine you.

The rest of the story. Depending on your town, the others comments sound good.

Have fun,

Scott.