Author Topic: MAGNETEK or Windyboy?  (Read 1918 times)

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Rock

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MAGNETEK or Windyboy?
« on: January 11, 2007, 03:12:50 PM »
Has anyone hooked a dual rotor to a Magnetek or Windyboy Direct grid tie inverter?  These inverters require pretty high DC volts.  Operating range is 0-600 VDC but they only MPPT from 50 VDC to 500 VDC.  Will take input of 40-400 (3 phase) VAC rectified.  Nominal voltage of the Magnetek is 360 VDC.  


They output grid compatable UL listed POWER.  184 to 264 VAC single phase.


I think some of the 48 volt (nominal) dual rotors could hit 120 to 140 VDC very easy if they were not hooked to batteries to pull volts down.  


Wouldn't this also help with the HOT stator issue?  IE increase volts and amps are not a high, keeping stators COOOOLLLL??


Any comments?

« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 03:12:50 PM by (unknown) »

kurt

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Re: MAGNETEK or Windyboy?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2007, 08:56:40 AM »
last i heard the windy boy had to be programed with the power curve of the alternator it was going to be hooked to by the manufacturer before sale so was only avalable for a limited number of comertal units.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 08:56:40 AM by kurt »

Nando

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Re: MAGNETEK or Windyboy?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2007, 09:03:01 AM »
Rock:


The GRID tied inverters do like to have high voltage, the 120 volts types like 400 volts, the 230 volts types around 600 Volts, because the electronics need to feed the current with voltages higher than the peak volts of the GRID and in addition being capable of doing it with the GRID under higher than normal volts.


All of then need to work under the MPPT power to optimize the power output under high voltage ranges.


In principle, there is a circuit that take the lower input voltage of the generator and converted to the 400 or the 600 volts, then the AC section supplies the energy to the GRID under MPPT conditions, even if the power is at peak.


Most of them have the problem that if the voltage is higher than the 400 or 600 DC volts they may disconnect which may cause that the wind mill over voltages further if the system does not have another circuit to fold the voltage to the desired level or a ballast controller to maintain the output at the maximum allowed voltage.


The generators should be designed to produce high voltage at the peak power, like 400 or 600 DC Volts at furling point.


This way the generator can produce with an efficiency that could go as high as 90 % and no problems with the stator heating, from the normal (old technology of the late 1880's + years) where the generator output voltage is "clamped" by the battery bank with an efficiency that may go to 43 to 50 %.


I have been promulgating the high voltage concept with electronics to bring the voltage down to battery levels.


Battery charging with high voltage and a charger controller with MPPT profile can attain around 85 % efficiency versus the 50 % of the OLD technology.


Nando

« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 09:03:01 AM by Nando »

Nando

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Re: MAGNETEK or Windyboy?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2007, 09:40:37 AM »
Kurt:


If the Windy Boy needs to be programmed with the wind mill parameters (power curve of the generator) then it is using an old in-effective and limited MPPT controller.


A good MPPT controller does not need to be programmed with such parameters, it should be able to automatically obtain "on the fly" the power curve of the generator at any moment the wind mill generates any level of power.


Nando

« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 09:40:37 AM by Nando »

Rock

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Re: MAGNETEK or Windyboy?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2007, 09:45:15 AM »
From my research I have found that a Windyboy would be the easiest to install.  SMA allows free download of their power curve program, from their website.  And you could program the power curve yourself.  However the "powercurve' does not even come into play until the unit detects 350 volts for over 30 seconds sustained, I think.  Basically the power converstion is Linear up to that point and not programable.  IE if unit is putting out 200VDC then the Windyboy will put out 500 watts, if unit is putting out 300 VDC then windyboy will put out 1000 watts, until it see 350VDC or greater for 30 seconds then it will start MPPTing and output power will vary with wind genertator's "POWER CURVE."


Problem is that Windboy has no overspeed protection or grid fail protection!!!


On the other hand Magnetek has a wind inverter and a wind controller.  The wind controller takes 3 phase AC current and converts to DC current for the wind inverter.  The wind controller also has an overspeed device that will slow wind generator in situations that cause wind gen to go above 600VDC.  Basically it clamps the wind generator at 600VDC and will not allow the gen to overspeed. It also has a device that shuts wind generator down if grid fails. Problem is that to my knowledge "we" cannot program a power curve into it, yet.  It must be done by Magnetek or the wind turbine MFG.  

« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 09:45:15 AM by Rock »

marv

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Re: MAGNETEK or Windyboy?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2007, 04:18:10 PM »
Hey Rock,  Magnetek's Aurora inverter is the one I'm planning

to use for my system.


And yes the Magnetek can be programed to "your" power curve.

I allready have the inverter interface downloaded on my computer.


Magnetek (Aurora inverter) now owned by Power One, has a 15 point

programable power curve. Where Windyboy has only 3.


Magnetek also has a multimode inverter MWI-4600-48.

Which you can grid-tie and charge 48v batteries from a wind turbine,

generator or solar, seperatly or at the same time.


Marv.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 04:18:10 PM by marv »

vawtman

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Re: MAGNETEK or Windyboy?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2007, 04:50:10 PM »
Hello Marv


 How much does it cost?

 Will the power co. allow a homemade alt(guess they should has long has the inverter is UL)?

 Gridtie is the way to go im starting to think.For us that can.


 Just would love to see the meter backup.Thanks

« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 04:50:10 PM by vawtman »

marv

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Re: MAGNETEK or Windyboy?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2007, 05:16:14 PM »
Hey Vawtman,  Here is one listed on "E" bay.


They are a little hard to find right now since Magnetek sold there

RE division to Power One. It will take a little while for the

dust to settle.


-as long as the inverter is UL listed it's ok here in Ontario (Canada).


http://cgi.ebay.ca/Magenetek-3-0-KW-Grid-Tied-Solar-Inverter-brand-new_W0QQitemZ250012749451QQihZ015
QQcategoryZ41980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


These are perfect if you build a high voltage wind turbine.

Also less heat waisted in the stator and are alot more efficent.


Marv.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 05:16:14 PM by marv »

vawtman

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Re: MAGNETEK or Windyboy?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2007, 12:45:40 PM »
Thats not a bad price to pay after seeing my 200$ electric bill today.Sure i could cut back.The first thing to go is the tv for the dog while im at work.Not sure what a dog addicted to soap operas will do without the tube.


 Of course there is a good side, the higher the bill the more the wife wants to invest in the turbines.


 Im hoping and thinkin the 12pl 36cl axial will be a good low rpm high voltage alternator when done.Gotta get my butt in gear.


 Thanks for the link Marv

« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 12:45:40 PM by vawtman »

vawtsup

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Re: MAGNETEK or Windyboy?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2007, 04:45:29 PM »
Hi Rock


This is my first so be gentle. I found the infromation at  http://www.power-one.com/alternative-energy/  , the

Manetek is now called "Power-One's MWI Mutimode Wind Inverter".

Thanks for this post, I found just what I was looking for.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2007, 04:45:29 PM by vawtsup »