Author Topic: How to rate 'RPM' for any given Wind Turbine  (Read 5376 times)

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Usman

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How to rate 'RPM' for any given Wind Turbine
« on: September 28, 2007, 01:45:19 PM »
I observed while looking up spec. sheet from different turbine manufacturers that 'rated rpm' varies significantly different from turbine to turbine even of same rotor diameter and wind speed. All manufacturers tend to rate their turbines at lower rpm due to low noise emissions but I would presume that lower rpm-rated turbines would loose a bit of efficiency, especially if they were rated 50% slower than their counter-parts.


Also gearless and geared machines had much different rpm ratings even with a similar rotor diameter and blade numbers.


I wanted to know if there was a way to calculate or predict the rpm ratings on a project-wind turbine, regardless of the drive train or gearing mechanism. My understanding is that we have to take into account



  1. -The torque produced by a given rotor at the rated wind speed (or speeds) and match it with the
  2. -Torque required by the generator at that rpm (or multiply it with the torque ratings of the generator in a geared system) and also
  3. -Consider the drag losses


inorder to come up with a final rpm ratings of the turbine.


But I may be wrong as this sounds rather too complicated and engineering-intensive! Any ideas?


Thanks.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 01:45:19 PM by (unknown) »

Flux

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Re: How to rate 'RPM' for any given Wind Turbine
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2007, 09:12:06 AM »
I suspect that this is far too complicated to come to a sensible answer.


In theory rpm will be determined by rotor diameter tsr and rated wind speed.


In theory gearing doesn't affect the rotor rpm but as it affects the alternator rpm there is bound to be an interaction as it is possible to make a smaller and cheaper and usually more efficient alternator for a given output if you run it at high speed.


Rated wind speed will affect the rated speed as a higher rated wind speed will result in higher rotational speed even if you keep the same tsr.


A manufacturer claiming a large maximum power out and rating at say 30 mph will probably need to aim for a higher rated rotational speed than a lower power rated machine aimed for say 20 mph. On many sites the higher power rated machine will produce no more power but it will sell better as it boasts a higher rating.


The other factor that has a lot of effect is how the alternator is matched to the blades and for what wind speed it is optimised. An air gap type alternator matched for a low wind area will likely have a low operating speed at full rating and may be approaching stall at rated power. A machine using a slotted cored alternator with the same cut in speed may well be approaching reactance limiting at full output and may have double the operating speed at the same rated wind speed. Whether it produces more or less power depends on too many factors.


If we remove many of the limitations and compromises of normal machines and consider those whose rotational speed directly tracks wind speed ( constant tsr) then there would be far less variation. Most would choose the highest tsr that would let them reach the rated power at rated wind speed with an acceptable noise level.


Things may be changing but in the past there was a tendency for makers to go for high rated power and accept that it would have to come from higher wind speeds than most people are likely to see on many occasions. They were not often too bothered that at rated power the things were by my standards very noisy.


Home built machines are more often designed for better performance in low winds and the common use of air gap alternators has meant that the full power operating speeds are much lower than the early commercial machines, They produce more energy on most sites for a given rotor diameter, do it with less noise and stress, and to some extent some of these ideas are rubbing off onto the commercial manufacturers.


When mppt becomes common, one of the effects will be that to gain the best from it, top speeds will need to rise again and more attention may be needed to obtain these higher speeds with good aerodynamic efficiency and low noise.


While we bog down alternators at constant volts the type of alternator will continue to have a large effect on the running speed.


The slotted iron cored machines will probably produce similar outputs from fairly low efficiency alternators using the higher prop efficiency. The air gap machines will need to be mismatched sufficiently to keep the blades from stall and will produce similar outputs but with higher alternator efficiency and lower prop efficiency.


The cheap alternator with slots and lower efficiency at full load may manage a better full output as it will be able to dissipate the losses in it far more effectively. Often it doesn't need to furl very effectively to survive high winds if it reactance limits and you may find it running at relatively higher maximum speeds.


What speed is really best will be more dependent on the site and local wind conditions than the whims of the manufacturer.


Flux

« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 09:12:06 AM by Flux »

scorman

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Re: How to rate 'RPM' for any given Wind Turbine
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2007, 10:24:45 AM »
Flux,

I enjoyed reading your response and you make many salient points.

You say it can be complicated ...I say not necessarily


However, getting back to Usman's original question about "rating" other than for advertising purposes, isn't the simplistic view simply that a performance curve tells the whole story ..as an example the Skystream gives a KW vs WS in their brochure.

http://www.skystreamenergy.com/skystream/product-info/


In an article by Paul Gipe, it had been pointed out earlier that shows that their rated output is 50% higher than the actual output at 20mph rating.

http://www.wind-works.org/articles/CommentaryontheSkystream.html


They also give a spec of min and max rpm ie 50->350rpm..what is simply needed is an rpm vs WS chart to satisfy Usman's question...BUT, IMHO for commecial units, the rpm debate is irrelevant ..the Skystream chart says it all, since you can't alter the rpm anyway ...you get x amount of power from y amount of WS vs the total avail power in that WS gives you % efficiency. Make comparisons for the avg WS you expect to see, not what the manufacturer "rates" his unit at.


Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 10:24:45 AM by scorman »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: How to rate 'RPM' for any given Wind Turbine
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2007, 07:48:01 PM »
Absolute RPM is not as much of an issue as TSR - at least for a single-rotor horizontal axis turbine.


Horizontal axis machines have torque exerted on them by the wind - which means they exert a torque on the wind in return.  That means they leave some energy in the wind as twist as it leaves in the downwind direction.  Power is RPM times torque, so a higher TSR machine experiences a lower torque and wastes less power twisting the downwind air, allowing it to more closely approach the Betz limit.


(Vertical axis machines have similar issues but it's not so cut-and-dried.)

« Last Edit: September 28, 2007, 07:48:01 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

scorman

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Re: How to rate 'RPM' for any given Wind Turbine
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2007, 11:19:59 AM »
Where do you derive this theory??


" Power is RPM times torque, so a higher TSR machine experiences a lower torque and wastes less power twisting the downwind air, allowing it to more closely approach the Betz limit."


Except for the fact that Claus Nybroe's Windflower with 12 blades has the highest efficiency of any production turbine and it's TSR = 3.6


Hugh Piggot even claims it is so:

http://users.aber.ac.uk/iri/WIND/TECH/WPcourse/page9.html


High TSR turbines were predicated 30+ years ago based upon the convenience of matching to a high rpm rated generator ...with the advent of new magnets for axial designs, your premise is not founded


As a side note, the noise generated by a turbine is related to the fifth power of tip speed ...so a TSR=5 vs TSR=7 is 1/5x less noisey ..get it down to TSR=4.5 and you have 1/9 the noise generated ..it behooves us to design more efficient, quieter turbines to gain wider acceptance


Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 11:19:59 AM by scorman »