GE 1HP ECM motor windmill

[pmurf1]

Hello all, first post to this board after I stumbled upon it. I've been reading up on making a wind generator out of the GE variable speed ECM motors 1/2- 1 HP on various boards and finally got some time to start on one. I do HVAC work, so getting my hands on used but good ones is no problem. I plucked 3 out of the scrap pile at work last week and began to play around with them. The one in the pic with all of the number/color coded stickers on the windings I actually broke one of the start wires off one of the coils, so it's junk. Figured I'd use it for illustration and if a stator, bearings, or end cap ever go bad I've got spare parts.

 I have one wired up like "Jerry" from this board did in some of his older posts, but there's a lack of new information and some of the posts/pics didn't show up or weren't real clear to me, so I figure I'd document my build as I went. I'm at the point now where I'm trying to figure out how to wire the 36 wires coming from the end bell of the motor into three phase so I can rectify it to 12vdc. I've read and am still trying to comprehend star and delta configurations and what works best, but I figured a picture is worth a thousand words for people to explain what works best to wire these things. So my main question is what wires below should be wired together, series/parallel? The start of each of the 18 coils in the pic is an odd number, the end is even. For example phase 1 start is 1, end is 2. Phase 2 start is 3, end is four, phase 3 is 5 start and end 6. Around it goes until you end up back at the start.

 I've read two tales of how to wire it up. From my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, to wire it star, I would wire nut 2,4, and 6 together. For phase 1 (orange) Then I would connect 1 to 7, 8 to 13, 14 to 19,20 to 25, 26 to 31, 32 to 1, and then attach a lead to go the rectifier diode. Phase 2 (blue) would be 3 to 9, 10 to 15, 16 to 21, 22 to 27, 28 to 33, 34 to 3, and to a lead to the next rectifier diode. Phase 3 yellow would be 5 to 11, 12 to 17, 18 to 23, 24 to 29, 30 to 35, 36 to 5, to a lead to the last recifier diode?

I've also read to just wire all the starts and ends of each phase together parallel, 6 in a group. In other words phase 1 orange starts would be 1,7,13,19,25,31. Phase 1 ends would be 2,8,14,20,26,32. Phase 2 blue starts would be 3,9,15,21,27,33. Phase 2 blue ends would be 4,10,16,22,28,34. Phase 3 yellow starts would be 5,11,17,23,29, 35. Phase 3 yellow ends would be 6,12,18,24,30,36.

After these are all tied together six in a bunch, you would tie the ends of all phases together, eighteen in a bunch, and the other 3 groups of six start wires for each phase would go to each of the 3 rectifier diodes?

Any help on the best way to wire it for the most power would be appreciated. I'm at the point right now where I'm ready to build my rectifier and need to get this wired. Welding up a stand, tower, etc.. is the easy part for me, I'm just a visual person and the only way I could think of getting my answer was to post a pic for all to see.

Thanks,

Pat

[pmurf1]

Here's a broken down pic of the internals of one marked out by phase - orange phase 1, blue phase 2, yellow phase 3. Starts of each coil phase are odd numbered, ends are even.

[pmurf1]

Let's try the pic again downsized a bit.

[ghurd]

What voltage?

What HP motor?

Do you want 'some' power in low wind, or lots of power in high wind?

Not that I can be much help, but thats what "we" need to know.

It wasn't really necessary to completely separate it down to individual coils!

You know used working (with good brains) 1/2~1HP ECMs are fetching big bucks on ebay?  It would be a shame to send them to the landfill.

G-

[pmurf1]

Ghurd,

 You were one of the guys that was on my list to email if no one posted here. I emailed "Jerry" but never got a reply. Do you actually run one? What's your input how to get a 1 HP to do a little charging in low wind, say 50-100W or more? I live in Phoenix, so we don't get a whole lot of wind most of the time. We do get some pretty good gusts here though. My main idea for it now is to charge a triple cell deep cycle in my camper, maybe more if it works good. I get a lot of stuff for free and just make neat stuff out of it as time allows. I don't know if it would be viable in the future to tie it to my grid tied 3k solar, but that's not my worry now.

 The motor that I have seperated coils in is a 1 HP, the ecm's will do 120 or 240 volt. I have two 1HP, the one I'm trying to get the pic to post is a 1/2 hp, and I saved a never used 3/4HP with a module from the scrap pile last week. I'm not interested in selling them yet, just trying to come up with a little low buck winter project windmill. I already have a ton of scrap steel for the base,tower, and a Trane condensor fan blade hub that is plenty beefy for some blades.

Do the pictures show up? Any tips to get them to show up or how to edit posts for a newbie. I'd love to be able to have a nice post on how to make one from scratch in a easy to follow fashion for others.

Pat

[ghurd]

Jerry may chime in.

I saw the pic in your files. (when you want it to show in the story, there ia an "Insert Photo" drop down, maybe top right or at the bottom)

Link to photo,

http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/11564/geecmcolorcoded.JPG

There is no edit.

'Camper' makes me think try a 1/2HP.  Anything larger is an awful lot for a battery not being used.

Not sure what you mean by "a triple cell deep cycle", but anything larger than 1/2HP may be too much for the battery anyway.

May get a 1/2HP, Jerry Rig for limited current while hopefully staying out of a bad stall.

No. I still don't have a permanent one flying.  And ran out of summer again.

G-

[Norm]

You have to go to your photo downloads...and then

get a .jpg file from a folder in your computer

Do a search on this board I think we already have

instructions from Wooferhound on how to download

your pics....really isn't that hard...(cause even

I can do it) LOL ! ( but I don't know how to

wire up an ECM motor)

neat little pic tho (in pmurf1 files)

[Norm]

Menu on the right 'How to use the board'....

click on it and navigate to where it says how to

download pictures.

[Jerry]

Hi Pat.

Sorry I missed your e-mail.

Can't see your pictures? I've found for 24 volt use, just leave the ECM wired stock. Don't even open the motor can.

Then wire the unit 3 phase star. For 12 volt use, open the can, find the star point conection. Next, seperate the 3 leads at the star point.

Identify each of the seperated wires with its corisponding original power conection wires (continuity tester).

Now you have the 3 phases identified, solder an added lead to each of the seperated wires. Bring them out of the motor can, paired with there phase partner.

I like to twist each pair per each phase together. Now use 3 seperate fullwave bridge rectifiers. Wired "Jerry Rigged".

Its now ready to fly 12 volt.

Just sold one of these last week and its up and flying as I write.

4ft blades work well. 5 ft will work well also.

The original 1/2" shaft is prety weak. I'v replaced it with a 3/4" shaft a few times.

You pull the original 1/2" shaft and the rubber dampening stuff out of the center of the armature.

Machine some metal stock to go back in to replace that. Machine the metal shaft stock to accept a new 3/4" shaft. Replace end cap bearings to match. Makes for a much more rugged light waight machine.

You can pick up a nice 14 gage 6 wire cable (looks like a nice black extension cord)

at the auto parts store. This will let you put the rectifiers on the ground and not on the tower.

This cable is for trailer light wireing.

My wind test power #s from my S-10 truck mount show better power output then South West WPs AIR 403.

Heres how the #s went.

 5 mph   403 0 watts ECM  0 watts.

10. mph   403 0 watts ECM 30 watts.
    
15. mph   403 150 watts ECM 97 watts.
    
20. mph   403 200 watts ECM 162 watts.
    
25. mph   403 250 watts ECM 280 watts.
    
30. mph   403 325 watts ECM 381 watts.
    
    

As you can see cutin was sooner on the ECM. The 403 didn't hit cutin till about 13 mph.

These power #s are scewed by the test truck mount, but both wind gennies were tested back to back on the same test truck.

You said your in a low wind area. In that case you should see more Watt Hrs from the ECM. And if you do get some high wind you'll keep up or even do better.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Hope you can get the pictures posted. What are you using for blades?

                         JK TAS Jerry

[pmurf1]

Ghurd,

 Thanks for the help with the pic, it shows up in your post. Good to know there's no edit, I didn't see it in the rules either.

 As far as the triple deep cycle battery, my neighbor works for a credit card processor that has triple redundant systems for the electrical and generators. They swap out their huge generator starting batteries every two years regardless if they need it or not. That and they are maintained all the time to prevent failure. They look like 3 deep cycle batteries put together, just in one case. I don't know the specs on them, but it takes two guys to lift them. I put one in my slide in camper that I dry camp with, and the other in my boat which powers a monster stereo. I used to run out of battery on both before, but no more. I know he's getting 6 more in June when they swap out the others on his other gen sets. I'm the kind of guy that will take something because it's free and I might need it later, I've got the room to store stuff and I'd rather recycle it than toss it. If I can get a couple of these going, I may have a free battery bank next summer.

 Do you or any others after looking at the photo have any input how I should wire them? In other words, if you've done it to make a low wind output mill what wires do I need to hook together. Hopefully you can make it easy for a newbie like me to understand, as in hook 1 to 3, 5 to 9, etc.. for example.

Pat

[pmurf1]

Thanks for the reply Jerry,

 Do you think you could look at the link in Ghurd's post #6, and tell me which wires I should connect together, wire series, etc.? I don't fully understand star/delta yet, but if I see it wired I will understand it. I'm a visual learner. Ghurd posted the link to my pic with a pic of the internals broken down into the three phases by color and the start and stop of each coil by number 1-36.

 As far as blades, I don't have any yet, open to suggestions. I was thinking of doing some PVC ones since they're cheap and easy and I can get 4-6" pvc scrap for free, but I don't mind spending some $.  I have a hub from a Trane condensor fan that would fit on the 1/2" shaft and is pretty beefy. If I get one up and running and the 1/2" shaft becomes a problem, I have the capability to go to 3/4", but I'm gonna try the 1/2" for now. I've got plenty of spare shafts/end caps.

Gonna try one more pic, hopefully it'll take. It's of a motor I've seperated the coils on and ran them through the end bell.

Pat

[pmurf1]

Thanks for the help Norm, actually got one to show up.

The pic of the three on my workbench shows one with a condensor fan blade from a Trane heat pump on it. We had a probably 5-10 mph wind yesterday, just a nice breeze, and I stood up on my roof with that set up and it spun pretty good. I didn't hook my tachometer up to it since my girlfriend didn't want to climb up there and measure it while I held it, but it spun pretty decent IMO. Thinking of using this gutted hub with some pvc blades unless someone tells me I'm stupid for doing so?

[pmurf1]

Man, I'm getting good at this picture thing! Pic for Jerry and all, which wires do I hook together to get to my 3 rectifiers?

[Norm]

Glad to see that your pics are working...if you

use this hub....remember to make a ridge in the

shaft so if the set screw loosens the hub won't

slide off ?

[ghurd]

The condensor fan blade was barely turning.  They don't work very well.

"Real Blades" turn so fast it will scare the tar out of you.  Not something most people hold in hand more than once in good wind.

Like Norm said, need to make sure the fan blade hub doesn't come loose and fall off.

I use a few of the HF drill stops (50 cent coupon sometimes).  May be enough room on the factory shaft? LOL.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=38336

Jerry,

Some of the ECM star / delta / JR numbers never made much sense to me.

(1/2HP, 500 RPM, Star or Jerry, 3.4A)

Maybe Jerry Rigged with a fat motor-run cap in series with each phase before the rectifiers would help?

F&P has about the same issues?  In case you missed it,

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/9/23/8477/59397

G-

[pmurf1]

 As far as the hub, it's pretty beefy steel. Trane makes pretty good stuff compared to other brands. It also has two set screws. I don't know if you guys know this trick, but when you tighten a set screw, loosen it and do it again and it'll set even tighter. I can always put a tack weld on the shaft to the hub if needed and grind it off if needed for service.

 Just need to get this wiring figured out so I can go forward.

[bsafe]

What sort of tower were you considering? How high are you going to mount the turbine?

[pmurf1]

Tower will probably a piece of 1.5" steel schedule 40 pipe I have laying in the backyard left over from other projects. It's 20', but I don't know if I'll go that high. I could also mount it on my patio cover which is about 10' high and then go up another 10' from there above my house roofline. It could be anchored to the house if needed. But more than likely it'll just be on a 10-15 foot pole anchored and guidewired to the ground.

[pmurf1]

 After taking apart a stock 1Hp ECM tonight to see what Jerry was talking about in his response, this is what one looks like when you first crack the case.

 The star point connection is where the three coil wires tie together. I think I made a lot of work for myself seperating each coil because to me it looks to me like they are wired 3 phase star right out of the box. In other words the end of each phase coil gets wired in series to the start of the next. It seems to me GE has packaged it for you already without having to run the cluster of wires out of the end like I did or Jerry did in some of his old posts.

 According to Jerry's post, I just need to cut the star connection 3 wires apart and find out which one is continous with the red, black, and blue wires that originally had the quick connect plug on them from the factory. The run the total of 6 wires out of the end cap to the 3 rectifiers. If it's that simple, I wasted a couple hours of time seperating coils.

 Am I on the right track here? Hopefully I can pick up my heatsink and diodes tomorrow.

Pat

[ghurd]

Add 3 wires.

Yes, it is that simple.

G-

[pmurf1]

 Got a couple free hours tonight to work on it. We had some 6" schedule 80 PVC scrap at the shop, so I snagged it for the blades. Cut it in quarters with a circ saw and made the hub end 5.25" approx, the tip end 1.25" approx. Gave it a round sanding, still need to final sand it with a DA and paint it. I will probably add a third bolt to each, I ran out of 3/8" grade 8's, only had six with nylocks at the house. Tip to tip it's right at 48".

[pmurf1]

Stopped by a local electronics supplier today and picked up 3 full wave rectifiers and a heat sink. They're rated 40amp, surge is a little higher 50 amp maybe? Pretty small, maybe an inch square. Look easy to hook up, ac in on two lines from each phase and 12vdc + and - out. I'll probably mount it in a scrap gutted 60 amp a/c disconnect box I have sitting in my scrap pile at the base of the tower. I can open the weatherproof door easily and leave it open for heat dissipation if needed. It doesn't rain that much in Phoenix to worry about moisture. You know if it's going to rain usually.

[pmurf1]

Made up a quick motor mount tonight. Used some 1/8" plate and 1x1" square stock with large hose clamps. The pivot point is the mating input shaft of a Jeep transmission to a transfer case that I had from previous projects. It has nice roller bearings internally, and was made to handle a lot more load than this thing will throw at it. The vise end will slip inside my tower pole and get welded.

 I also hooked up the rectifiers and tried it on a old trailer light. I was trying to watch a multimeter, hold a digital tachometer to see cut in, and modulate an 18v cordless drill. It proved a couple tasks too many, and I took the smoke out of the light. From what I could tell, cut in was around 370's. I'll need a dump load and charge controller I'm sure.