post pic,s of R.E. projects in wind forum

[hayfarmer]

Fabricator,
 LOL!  I Dont need bifocals yet....with emphasis on "yet".
 Here is my 11 footer at 60 feet, taken  with a "high" quality cell phone pic.
With a little squinting  you folks might can make out the battleship gray paint scheme and the D-Day invasion stripes on the tail.

freejuice,couldn't tell from the picture of the 60 foot tower you built,what type of construction? and is a tilt up? I am getting ready to push mine up another 20 feet to 55 foot up in your altitude,hows the weather up there? thanks hay here's a pic before the added 20 feet.6 footer swea

[freejuice]

Hi Hayfarmer,
 That tower has been modified since that photo was taken.
 However, it was 60 feet made out of sch 40, 4 inch pipe.
 At the time the gin pole was only 20 feet long...now its 40 feet.
 I welded the pipes at the seams and borrowed a pipe joining technique from Hugh Piggot in one of his manuals.
 The gin pole was constructed in the same manner as the tower.
 However I could have probably used 3 inch pipe for the gin pole...but the 4 inch stuff was a deal at the time

There was three sets of guys @ 20 feet. 40 feet and about 53 feet.
 The gin pole also had anchor/tower support cables from the end of the gin pole to the same positions ( 20, 40 and 53 feet).
 Since my gin pole was a bit shorter at the time, I simply transfered my wires after lifting it to the concrete anchor position.
 However this is a royal pain in the rear to do, so if you can make your gin pole long enough to reach your anchor position then you should be in good shape.
 I think a few others here have parroted the same thing about gin poles...make them long enough to ease the strain of lifting your tower! Personally I found a 2:1 ratio is good so if your tower is 50 feet go for a 25 foot gin pole.

 I'm not an engineer by any strech of the imagination, so my advice might not mean sqaut.

I'm down in South Carolina...and you said "up there" were are you located?....Cuba?
 Oh the weather? Well it might snow again Tuesday...its in the 20's in the evenings and get in the upper 40's in the afternoons the last few days...but the weather at the mill saw it frozen one day after windless freezing rain and couldnt turn

[hayfarmer]

thanks for the great info frejuice very concise I will take on some of the details you did on your tower.I really could not tell from the pic if it was pipe or lattice,(maybe I need the bifocals) Just wanted to ensure I was going up with the right size pipe,I know with my micro mill with smaller pipe it went up like a wet noodle,I did not want to see that with one twice as high. am hoping the elevation added will add to the battery bank.I notice the trees blowing much more at 50+ feet.

thank you all for the great advise. Hayfarmer


May the wind be with you
and may the "magic SMOKE " never visit your system

[freejuice]

thanks for the great info frejuice very concise I will take on some of the details you did on your tower.I really could not tell from the pic if it was pipe or lattice,(maybe I need the bifocals)

Hi Hayfarmer,
 FWIW, The tower is now surrounded in a lattice "cage" and my 17 footer sits on it.

But  I'm no emgineer, so I had to fudge on the plus side of caution.

[walp]

Very nice pictures!

Everyone seems to have such tall towers :/
I had the chance to buy a really nice 14.5m (47.5') freestanding lattice tower for 200$ once, but I was to lazy to pick it up... Im such a fool
(500 miles away though..)


What exactly does R.E projects in the thread title stand for? Recent?, Or just plain "re:" ? 


Anyhow, I take a chance and post a picture of our first turbine even though I dont know if it qualifies as a "R.E project"

[DanG]

What exactly does R.E projects in the thread title stand for?

Renewable Energy

[hayfarmer]

Hi walp, I started the thread on pictures of  Renewable energy for wind mills to see how people progressed in their effort to make power from the wind and see

where they ended up,also to see where I can improve and to avoid the enrollment in the "Univerisity of the school of hard knocks".

It looks like your first mill is very nice for the first, do you have any turbulence trouble with the trees in the background? and how high is it? is the mill

up to your expectations? thanks Hayfarmer

[walp]

Thanks Nice initiative to the thread as well!

The trees in the background are located to the west, a direction from which the wind hardly ever blows, but when it does, it's really really REALLY dangerous.(15-30 m\s)
So I think the massive tree bank (a few  hundred meters long) is just doing good serving as a protective shield, even though it probably creates a lot of turbulence in the case of strong winds. (But I rather have 15m\s turbulence than 30 m\s clean wind ^^ )   

The tower is only 10m high, which is just a wee bit to short, (even though just 35m from the open sea)


This is the topology:
W Thick treebanks
N Treebank
NE-SE = open water blocked by a few smaller trees
S-SW = Open fields (over 200m)




Yeah, I know it's not optimally placed, and that the tower Is a bit short,
but since we are on a tight budget and have no building permit (You can place a 3-3.49 m without permit in sweden with some minor restrictions), that were the spot to use, knowing that S-winds are mainly good in the summer, and N-E-S in the winter. 

Would love to cut down some more trees though..

[hayfarmer]

 walp,   thanks for the reply and aerial pic,I noticed most of the lots stopped clearing trees short of the beach,is that a zoning issue? I have a class 5 scenic river near my farm,

and can't build or clear any thing in river view.I have 2 trees that are on prevailing wind side at my home turbine site that I am topping or cutting down that are

killing me with turbulence,both are within 150 feet but the natives (wife) were leaking with h20 (tears) when I started topping It's just something she will have

to get over) they will get a hair cut at the least.and to the downwind side I have a wall of tall trees that seem to swirling the winds that get past and turn the mill

out of the wind,I just have to get up the nerve to climb the monsters and top them.
hayfarmer

[walp]

Haha! "Leaking with h20.."

It's actually not a zoning issue, but the land owner (my girlfriends father / my father in law, or what ever it's called..) wishes to have a bit of decorational trees along the shore. However we are promised to build our planned bigger turbine on the ridge, which after cutting down some of the larger trees, will make the perfect spot for a turbine, catching almost every wind there are! (And at only 10-15m height! ) 

Never actually thought of the idea to trim the bushes a bit at the top..! Hmm..

Otherwise, a very slow (and painful?) way to kill trees is just impaling them with a large copper spike! (Unless its a Transylvanis Sylvestis!, then you'd better run away!)


Folks! Keep posting them turbines! It's really interesting to see them gathered at one thread!

[fabricator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEWBpua4bLk

[zvizdic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv0nRHZGcQ8

[methanolcat]

Heres mine, 15 Footer, 50 feet in the air. Its been up since October 2010, so 3 months and has done well with helping to heat the house. Location is north east Indiana.



   Matt

[hayfarmer]

Matt nice tower,didn't notice any major concrete work at base.does each leg have its own concrete footing,and  it is free standing no guy wires,How is it holding up threw the winter winds?   also  "done well with helping to heat the house "  what method are you using to heat house with mill?   thank you

hayfarmer

[clockmanFRA]

Hello all,

Finally took the step of joining this discussion board. For sometime i was a constant guest reading this most usefull information.

I have a small house in the UK, but also a small farm in Normandy France which we are making into a self sufficient family home.  (still at it 11 years later??).

Picture shows our lavoir pond, (where the locals used to wash clothes etc, where a small underground spring comes out) the old restored Lavoir building holds all controll equipment, 3.7Kw inverter and batteries (550 Amp 48v system). 220vac is sent up to the house and the dump load excess is used in the library as movable air heaters.  Some PV panels for waterpumping to the tower tank and then for the walled garden, (local cattle here are all over the place) and 2  3.7m Hugh Piggots design wind turbines with No 3 under production. 10meter Hinged 100mm dia poles,  No2 has fiberglass blades with the moulds being an exact copy of Hugh's design. (In France no planning/building regs/permission required if tower/installation under 12meters)

I had started RE in the late 70's with a Chinese (500BC) design VAWT which have 8 or 16 sails which ran before, gybed, luffed, tacked and so on. Made designs of a steel construction but matching power, load and trim was experimental and a lot of work. But Good old Hugh came out with his books HAWT that released all that info that manufacturers keep hidden, (in my humble opinion the man deserves a medal).

Again thanks to this discussion board for your info , ClockmanFRA

[shawn valpy]

love this thread because I like looking at other turbines so here is my first mill 2.8m dia blades dual f&p cheap mill!   
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hope this works i am new here and am building new mill 4 meter diameter blades axle type.
O buy the way i live in newzealand

[niall2]

this is my child on its way up  ...or down ...i,m not sure which



its Hughs 3.6m mill ...down at the moment for new bearings....but,ll be up again soon 

[walp]

Shawn valpy welcome!

You have a very special turbine there!
It almost looks as if your turbine belongs in a 2000 era 3d-game with strikingly similar trilinear texture models on the swivel

Impressive!

[gsw999]

With the lever closest to that end I would hazard a guess its def on the way up


nice turbine.

[niall2]

hi Shawn

theres something about your pic i never thought about before ...that looks like a platform under your  mill ...do you go up there ?

yes Gsw999 the lever was in the bottom pin ...had to think about that  .... going back up ....  

  

[shawn valpy]

Hi niall yes I do go up there and have been behind those blades while the mill is furling and producing 40 amps into my 24 volt bank dumb iknow but is great sorting things out on the go.
you have a very good looking mill there hope mine looks that good when finished

[Kwazai]

I'm really curious, something that has crossed my mind more than a few times (Chicago for instance)- is it worthwhile to determine just how much the 'lake affect' has on the wind (ie. would a 3 acre pond make any difference or another hundred yards away from a large body of water make any real difference, etc.)..
Mike

Thanks Nice initiative to the thread as well!

The trees in the background are located to the west, a direction from which the wind hardly ever blows, but when it does, it's really really REALLY dangerous.(15-30 m\s)
So I think the massive tree bank (a few  hundred meters long) is just doing good serving as a protective shield, even though it probably creates a lot of turbulence in the case of strong winds. (But I rather have 15m\s turbulence than 30 m\s clean wind ^^ )   

The tower is only 10m high, which is just a wee bit to short, (even though just 35m from the open sea)


This is the topology:
W Thick treebanks
N Treebank
NE-SE = open water blocked by a few smaller trees
S-SW = Open fields (over 200m)

(Attachment Link)


Yeah, I know it's not optimally placed, and that the tower Is a bit short,
but since we are on a tight budget and have no building permit (You can place a 3-3.49 m without permit in sweden with some minor restrictions), that were the spot to use, knowing that S-winds are mainly good in the summer, and N-E-S in the winter. 

Would love to cut down some more trees though..

[hayfarmer]

I know the up slope is a great advantage that my farm has, top of hill with up slopes on 3 sides prevailing wind directions. when forecasted high winds my observation is an

additional 25% peak wind speed I believe its either caused by the up slopes and or the proximity to a near by river,  another advantage is height seems to be a great

advantage of increasing 10M tower to 20 M in average wind speed,after that gains seem to not peak as much .I will be going up this summer     link:

http://www.windmeasurementinternational.com/wind-analysis/wind-shelter.php

  hayfarmer

[hayfarmer]

mill at my home site been running 1 year now,natives don't seem to mind,time to stretch it a bit.plan was to over  build and lengthen if needed.

got a wireless anemometer (only way to go IMHO) and taped orange streamers around property ,conclusion is : 1) getting ripped off at 35 feet the winds are booking


over 50 feet. 2) Wind is a great complement to solar,keeps battery stings floated without pulling from grid most nites and really adds to amps made when winds are 15 mph   

plus here.below is a picture of my planed modification,comments  criticisms and suggestions are welcome. sparks aren't flying any time soon ,maybe summer months.

the new 3rd set of guy lines in middle of tower will be added, any suggestion on size?


  thanks hayfarmer

[SparWeb]

I'm surprised nobody's followed up.  Anyway the overall idea isn't bad.  What you want to be careful doing is making the couplings that join the extension piece to the orginal pieces.  You need enough length of coupler to carry bending forces through the whole joint.  Over-doing it only adds weight.
Guy wires should just be up-sized for the taller tower if only as a matter of course.  Working it out carefully will tell you how much more.  It also depends on if your existing cables are too much or too little already.  I don't seem to remember you having either of those problems.  Consider using the existing top wires as the second-line guys for the extension piece, and start fresh for the top-most set of wires.  This will allow you to widen the stance of the anchors by 50% to equal the tower's 50% increase in height.
Just some initial thoughts.

[hayfarmer]

 



Steve thanks for the input, a few questions to follow. When I planned this tower I was bothering the brain trust here kicking around possible designs,it would be nice to see

catalog of working designs and modifications and lifespans of towers that worked and didn't .I over built with guy line sizes top 3/8 and anchors size in case the opinions of the

 brain trust were right:(60 feet)  well advise not taken from experts is ...well pretty dumb,  Mr Hugh piggot suggested same pipe size entire length.


       I first had to prove the neighbors wouldn't be upset  they aren't so I started at 35 feet ,  after the wind and power production study with anemometer


 It is clear I need wind above 15 mph to make it a constant addition to solar input for battery bank,and that is 50 plus

feet in my area.Get that warm and fuzzy feeling with added 15 amps to bank, questions are 1) cutting tower at the junction point 3.5 in welds to 3 in leaving a 1-2 foot stub  

welding on a 3.5 inch 21 foot pipe and doing the same with the 15 foot 3 in piece cut off on top and re welding inside like the picture shows in red,would this be OK or add

another coupler outside?  2) will add another guy line 3/8 to upper section so planned total height is 55 feet,the current anchors are 25 feet from tower should I go out further

for the new guy lines with new anchors points or 25 feet OK for a 6 foot mill.(don't think I will ever enlarge mill not a great wind site at home)  3) Gin pole is 3 in 20 feet long

plan is to bolt on a 10 foot addition of 3.5 inch over it or weld a 3 in  piece to it. what say you?  thanks for your time


hayfarmer

[fixitguy]

new here.i found an old whisper 1000 that crashed years ago.the PMA was all that survived.i put new bearings in and it fired right up.made some blades (those are NOT Jeffs blades).she's on my test bench ontop of a work trailor.

[SparWeb]

Hayfarmer,
Nobody's gonna hit you on the head with a hammer.  That's just the wrench you left up there, dropping on your noggin from 40 feet up.

Details details.  It gets really hard to tell just what you need - even with lots of pictures.  So I offer more general advice, and then start sounding more like an engineer.  Lots of footnotes and disclaimers.

Coupling on the outside or inside?  You can do it either way.  Outisde is inherently stronger, inside is inherently prettier.  You can do either one well, and either one can be screwed up just as easily too.  The bending strength of a schedule 40 pipe that fits on the OD of the tower is double the strength of a sched 40 pipe that fits in the inside.  Food for thought.

I would avoid any potential for welded joints as the load-path from segment to segment.  Welds are less strong than the base material and much more prone to crack.  Welding parts ON TO the basic tube used as a coupler is the way to go, because the tube remains intact.

[fabricator]

 Welds are less strong than the base material and much more prone to crack

Any certified welder will tell you that statement is WRONG, if you weld coupons during a cert test and the seam cracks during the bend test, you failed.

[B529]

 Welds are less strong than the base material and much more prone to crack

Any certified welder will tell you that statement is WRONG, if you weld coupons during a cert test and the seam cracks during the bend test, you failed.

Several years ago I unfortunately had a 80' tower come down. Three legged tower, 1/4 x 3 x 3 angle legs welded to 1/2 x 5 x 5 pads, pads anchor-bolted to buried concrete. One of the legs severed a foot or so above the welded pad. Welds did not fail/crack.

Couldn't disagree more with the weld/crack statement.

[JW]

I would avoid any potential for welded joints as the load-path from segment to segment.  Welds are less strong than the base material and much more prone to crack.  Welding parts ON TO the basic tube used as a coupler is the way to go, because the tube remains intact.

"Yes a coupler is a very good idea 1 ft etc"

One thing here thats not being specified is the welding process.

Years ago, I had a bearing puller, each jaw was forged. I snaped of one of the "tangs", I welded it with a small mig welder, then ground the surfaces, the area that I welded was "way" noticably weaker and would crack under even a moderate load.

On the other hand, I recently witnessed a stainless weld with a TIG machine and some really good rod, we did not use helium/mix, it was AC and 100% argon.

I did a brinell test of the weld, its outa site.

The idea of using a coupler to join segments of tubing is a really good idea...

JW

[bj]

    Fab is right about weld testing.  I think the key word here is Certified.  I have seen pics of beautiful welds posted here, but I have also seen
pics of welds that just plain scare me.   For an improperly welded joint, Spar would be correct I think.
    Just my 2 cents.  And yes, I have done all those tests, many times.

[JW]

If the coupler had two to three times the wall thickness of the tubing to be joined, you could use bolts instead of any welds. (as long as they did not sheer and that type of loading is not indicated)

JW