microchip control usage

[libra]

I would like to hear what others have done using pic computers regarding control of a wind genny.

I am learning programing and have a buddy that teaches this but would like to get some idea of what others have already done or are planning.

Tx  libra

[iFred]

I am in the process of building and programming devices connected to the gennys themselves..transimitting the info about wind speed, direction, rpm, (inductivly coupled estimated volts & amps). All with a single PIC chip and a transmitter/receiver combo) which will connect to a common PC serial port within 150ft range. Then I intend to integrate that data stream to a VB script to display onto screen and save stats into daily/weekly/monthly stats files.

[JW]

An area of high interest, to the homebrew as well as commercial windturbine guys. Would be controlers, specifically related to what are called dumploads. It is not only imperative to to keep your battery bank at the best possible state of charge. But also equally important to manage excess generated power from the windturbine. Since this power produced cannot be dumped into the battery bank when it is fully charged, alteratly if the load to the windturbine is simply disconected, the windturbine alternator will no longer slow down the dynamic assembly. Hence an overspeed condition can occur, which is undisireable, and one generally has redundant systems in place in this event, such as a furling system. A dump load is what the microcontroler could swich to if the battery bank reached its full state of charge, keeping the speed of the dynamic assembly smooth-running. Various usable dump load funtctional end uses have been envisged here, such as, but not limited too  , yard lamps, electric water heaters, clothes driers(elect-heat), infrared space heaters, etc.

 The main problem is to keep the controler from hunting[switching between battery charging and the dumpload] or rapidly cycling the load back and forth.

JW

[Galagedara]

Hay Libra,

I think its a good idia to construct a system of controlling the wind geny with a programmed micro controller. I have been looking for something like that for my future use. Please be kind enough to publish it in the discussion board for all of us. We wish for the interest of all of us to have the program, and the circuit.

Well I have no experience in any wind turbine, but I will be soon taking a course with our guru Hugh in Scotland, soon after a couple of months I will be going back to Srilanka where I will start my fun!

Kind Regarfds! Keep up the good work!

Leonard.

[domwild]

Glenn Littleford at the backshed (www.thebackshed.com) is at the moment working at a PICaxe-based controller. Just found it on his site. Beware, he is only just working on it and no support will be offered. He is also calling for those with a black belt in electrickery to assist - look at his excellent laser-cut parts for an F&P.

[Opera House]

Frankly, it is the only way to go. You really need the ability to custom modify your controller to get maximum efficency with multiple sources and various dump loads. But, it faces a lot of resistance from the gearheads here.  Those with limited programming experience will find a program like the PIC BASIC COMPILER from www.melabs.com easy to understand. I own the basic and the advanced version. With FLASH MEMORY you can start with a simple program and start adding features.  These systems can be very easy to build if you use your computer as the input device and display for the controller.  I see it as simple, but for others here it is a quantum leap that they will never make.  I've seen support for electronics on this board non existant.  

[finnsawyer]

Can that compiler work with machine language programs and the new video cards?  I.E. Can you work in both DOS and Protected Mode.  I've got a program I'm working on under Power Basic 3 that works fine in DOS and VGA, but that I want to use under the newer systems.  Thanks.

[gibsonfvse]

Others on this post have mentioned it already, but yes, I agree that for better efficiency, the load experienced by the prop must be managed.  In some cases, this is done with variable pitch systems, either mechanically or electronically.  In other cases, the load generated by the alternator is managed, and this is where a proper charge controller could come into play.  Granted, I don't know much on this as I haven't built anything, but I have in the back of my mind the picture of the mystical "cubic curve alternator" as mentioned on a post by Hugh Piggott (excellent, as usual).  

[bob g]

i have to agree with you on the non support of computer control of these systems here on the board, i also agree it is a stretch from being a "gearhead" to "compugeek" for most of us.

i understand most of the electronics envolved, but sadly like most am in the dark on the programming of these chips and the like.

perhaps someone here could post some simple circuits and the needed software/programming, so that one could "cut his teeth" so to speak and get familiar with this technology.

alternatively some book or resource for the "rank amateur" or beginner would be helpful to some, at least i would find it quite useful.

years ago radio shack sold an engineers book as they called it with basic circuits, their design and fuction that could be adapted to do alot of different things. something along these lines would sure be nice.

i think alot of folks are scared away from these things when you get into something that requires tons of knowlege and education to use, alot of writers assume that you already know how to do basic programming and have a working knowlege of the technology to begin with.

where does one start??

bob g

[Chiron]

I'd think a charge controller could be built using plain old analog methods with long feedback cycles that would avoid the hunting problem, though some battery chargers do use short pulses to float the fully charged batteries.

Where I see microcontrolers would be most useful with small wind turbines is for monitoring performance especialy when designing and testing them or for everyday logging.

The area of (commercial) windturbines I worked with was mostly in the control and converter/inverter systems. There are 4 seperate microprocessor based controlers on the z750s, but what struck me was that all the  emergency and failsafe systems are mechanical or simple analog systems.

I've been doing some initial design work and overall "project" planning. From speed control and power conversion/battery charging to overspeed furling/pitching and I plan on using either mechanical systems or analog electronics (with the exception of things like TTL clocks)

I'd be very reluctant to put a microcontroler on a turbine uptower. Static can build up on a clear, calm days. One of the guys I worked with last summer got nailed by static on a clear day bad enough that his arm was numb for days.

A rule of thumb I'd use is, if it needs to be handled with an anti static mat and wrist strap it should not be put on a turbine. I'd make an exception for power MOSFETs with built in protection and a good circuit board layout.

[Chiron]

Bob,

Basic circuits of all types can be found at http://www.discovercircuits.com/list.htm

Analog is more my thing but plain old PCs with a few external circuits are useful for monitoring and control. Serial and paralel ports are easy to program for control outputs.

Sound cards especialy the Sound Blaster and 100% compatables make good input/output devices. Even a plain old game port gives 4 analog and 4 simple digital (on or off) inputs.

Visual Basic and any flavor of C can be used to write programs to use these and the hardcore coders could use Assembly language. Subroutines and programming libraries are available on the web and there used to be plenty of "free" resourses.

APL anyone?

I used to have a PC controlled SW radio and used a small VB program I wrote to control the antenna inputs and attenuator through the printer port and later ran a DSP program through the sound card to clean up and record the programming.

I remember seeing in a magazine long ago plans, Basic code and schematics for an anemometer and wind vane that hooked to the PC through the game port. With the right conditioning circuits there's no limit to what you could monitor with an old PC and sound card.

HTH

.

[Tom in NH]

I used a PIC to control a grid powered power supply to charge the batteries of my solar RE system when the batteries run low and there is not enough sun to charge them. The PIC allows me to read the battery voltage and turn a solid state relay on and off. The relay brings household current to a transformer and rectifier circuit.

The plus side to microcontrollers is you can design your system any way you want. You're not limited to features that a commercial system offers. You develop a very close and knowledgeable relationship with your power system. You tend to lose the fear of tinkering with it and possibly breaking something.

The down side is you have to program the PICs to do what you want and you have to design and build supporting circuitry. Some might not see this as a down side, because it can be part of the fun, but it is very time consuming to program and design and build electronics circuitry. There is a steep learning curve to both. If you have programming experience, you will be able to pick up the PIC BASIC dialects fairly easily. If you have experience programming in assembly language, you will be very comfortable  programming a PIC. If you don't have this experience, it will be really really hard. I'd recommend looking for someone who teaches a course in programming PICs at a community college or vocational technical school. I know they're out there. There was a fellow on ebay who sold me everything I needed to get started and his day job was teaching a course at a college in New Mexico, I think. There are lots of books for teaching yourself to program PICs. They might help a beginning programmer too.

--Tom

[JW]

--hmmmmmmmmmmmmm,

cant help but thinking too self, ahhh well, nevermind you'll figure it out Later...

Sooooooo, lets see here, oummm no, ya well maybe,

BEST I CAN FIGURE "my pic" is the exact inverse of, Wild in Alaska's picture of the 'aftermath' of that Dog trying to get at an porcupine.... Hence after the fish is done with its anxiety attack, it deflates and goes back too normal??? Its the 'possible' accusation of being at the "brown belt level of elronictrickery" that inspires me the most (: ... Yet I am convinced that micro-controllers are use-less with basic, or C and C** language, seems to me one could use a PLC with booleen instructions or relay ladder logic [RLL] logic and bybass all conventions of "how its supposed too be done..."

JW

[Opera House]

No one here is going to learn "C" just to make a controller.  The PIC Control Basic compilers are pretty simple to use, but that still requires you to logically define what you are trying to do.  Something that many people just can't do.  More than 90% of the people on all boards just live their lives vicariously through others. Like YODA said, "There is do, not do, there is no try."  Years ago, I wanted to rebuild an automatic transmission. I did a lot of research and reading.  I never asked one question on a message board.  After that experience, I wrote a detailed neophites guide that would make it easy for others to do and posted it on the WEB.  Everyone liked reading it but everyone stopped when they had to get their hands greasy.  That was a waste of time I'll never do again.  This is a lousey board for posting anything technical on.  They shouldn't allow anyone to post comments on the diary board.  That just fills it up with garbage like the other threads.  It is also idiotic to not be able to edit you own post.  If you want to learn PIC, go somewhere else.

[JW]

Hi Opera House,

 You are probably right that "most" here will not learn C++ OR C just to make a controller. But it was my observation that libra stated- that someone was around to help with this. Basically I think the actual question being asked "by libra" was what are some applications that are related to windturbines that "a" PIC micro controller could be used for. Obviously libra has a local resource to help with programing. Also there is another way to do same thing, this would be to use a [PLC], or programable logic controller (cpu). These generally are pretty redundant, and dont crash. But to each his own. Since libra has a resource to help specifically with programing a PIC, I say GO FOR IT!. It wound be neat, and im sure many on the board here could enjoy seeing such an endeaver. Besides anthing that give's someone an excuse to build there own wind turbine, is what this site is all about. Smiles, any comments on my puffer fish, yes, no?

JW

[geoffd]

As I mentioned in one of the other threads, I am working on a Solar Tracker based on a PIC processor.  I also have the prototype for a simple 2 wire start controller for a 3 wire start generator ready.  The PCB board plots have been sent off to be made and hopefully I will have it all installed and working in about 3 weeks.  I need to tidy up the code a bit for publication, but I was planning to put that up here.

I've been programming for 30 years, and programming PIC's for 2, and I am quite happy to  help anyone out if they need it.

Also this should give you a simple taste for how its done.  

http://www.ubasics.com/adam/pic/picprog.html

Cheers

Geoff

[ghurd]

The fish has gas!  Run for your life!  He's gonna' blow!

But yes. (I do lots of solar) I will not learn any 'C' stuff if I just can buy one that works for wind.  I would like to understand more of it.  It would be neat.

G-

[geoffd]

Another burst of $0.02 worth.

This site has a good introduction to basi PIC interfacing and programming.

http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/talking/

Cheers

Geoff

[jimovonz]

For those of you who have always held off getting into micro controllers because of the percieved difficulties of programming/interfacing you can't go past the 'picaxe' micros. These little units are cheap as chips (excuse the pun!) and interface directly to your serial port for programming/data transfer. There are no complicated interface boards to buy/build. These chips are programmed in basic and or alternativey using a visual flowchart system. The chips operate at up to 16MHz and have onboard ADC's (Analog - Digital Converters - read analog voltages), PWM (Pulse Width Modulation - provides a pseudo analog output), digital outputs/inputs and can easily interface to cheap digital temperature sensors, additional memory, LCD screens, LED's, speakers and much more. I can buy a chip complete with project board and components + a serial cable ready to program for under $US20. Digital temp sensors accurate to better than 0.1degC up to 150degC cost under $US5 each and simply wire up! Check out www.picaxe.co.uk for more info

[Peppyy]

I may eventually cet to the point of doing some actuall programing. For the moment all my Linux experiments are keeping me busy enough.

I think the fish is getting a bit ripe. Is this another solar experiment?