Author Topic: I'ts alive!!  (Read 3880 times)

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cdog

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I'ts alive!!
« on: February 14, 2008, 02:28:53 AM »
Hello all, I have finally got my mill in the air! I can't beleive how slow it turns, how well it behaves and how much power it makes!!!

I hope to have pics this coming weekend.

I have one problem though......

I have a c-35 controller for diversion running into 6- 300 watt edge wound resistors.

Either I have connected something wrong, ot the controller is "dumb", or to slow reacting, as the batteries will go to 31 volts and the inverter will trip out in no time.(2-8-d's in series).

The resistors do not even have time to get slightly warm, even when I have the dials set at their lowest.

The light turns blinking red when the voltage goes by the set point, and every 5 to 10 seconds you can hear a buzz come from the controller. I would guess this is when it is diverting power? There is no change in spped or duration of the buzzing, I would have guessed that it may get loder or longer as it tried to divert more??

As usual, any help would be greatly appreciated,

Cdog.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 02:28:53 AM by (unknown) »

electronbaby

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2008, 07:47:02 PM »
to max out that controller, the most current you can dump is 35A. Im assuming you have a 24v bank?


the max turbine output must not exceed 840W (35A * 24V)


to sink 840W with your controller, it must be connected to a dump load that measures .68 Ohms. Im not sure you can get to this low a resistance with the resistors you have. If the resistance is not correct, you will have problems and it will never work correctly. You will probably blow up the controller and damage your batteries by cooking off the electrolyte. When this happens, your turbine will over speed and probably fall apart.


I have blown up many of these controllers before, and its not hard to do. Even when everything is sized right. Not one of my favorite controllers but a lot of people use them. :-)

« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 07:47:02 PM by (unknown) »
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electronbaby

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2008, 07:52:12 PM »
wow, i sound pretty against xantrex haha. Maybe I just have had bad luck. Another way to verify its not dumping the current you need, is to put an ammeter in series with the resistors. You will see whats actually going on.


Hope this helps :-)

« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 07:52:12 PM by (unknown) »
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cdog

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2008, 07:54:11 PM »
Thanks for the help.

I can't remember for certain, but the resistors were either 1 or 2 ohms.

I have 6 connected in parallel, and yes it is a 24 volt setup.

Should I have not at least felt some heat?

I purchased this controller when I only had solar panels, and no dreams of wind power. I have been peeking at the tristar 60 amp model, your opinions on this?

I do have the sliders that came with the resistors, so I should be able to tune them?

I leave the mill braked when I am not there, so I hope things will be ok.

Please throw any more info my way that you think may help,

Cdog.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 07:54:11 PM by (unknown) »

electronbaby

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2008, 08:03:19 PM »
The TS60 is a good controller. It has a lower lag time and reacts quicker to battery voltage spikes caused by gusty wind conditions. I like this controller and i currently use 2 of them. I think Hugh favors it as well. Im sure there are others who have opinions about it. You can program it with a computer through the serial port and i always thought that was handy.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 08:03:19 PM by (unknown) »
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ghurd

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2008, 08:22:35 PM »
THERES the problem!


Six 1 ohm resistors in parallel is 0.167 ohms.  At 28V the 35A controller is trying to dump 168A.  At 31V its 186A!  More than 500% over the rating.


Six 2 ohm resistors in parallel is 0.333 ohms.  At 28V the 35A controller is trying to dump 84A.  At 31V its 93A.


The resistors need reconfigured at the least.


The sound is the Majic Smoke trying to get out.  

No change in duration must be because that's how long it takes to shut itself down.

G-

« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 08:22:35 PM by (unknown) »
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electronbaby

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2008, 08:30:34 PM »
lol In the original post he gave no resistance values for the resistors. It was a guess. It could still be workable if the resistors were reconfigured and the voltage at which the controller started dumping was lowered so that it started to dump at a much lower voltage. But yes, magic smoke seems immanent.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 08:30:34 PM by (unknown) »
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cdog

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2008, 08:40:22 PM »
I think we have a handle on it now guys,lol!

So IF the resistors were 2 ohm like I think, 3 in parallel would give .66 ohms at close to 900 watts, very close to what was suggested that the controller can do?

I hope I have this rite now, many thanks, Cdog.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 08:40:22 PM by (unknown) »

cdog

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2008, 08:43:47 PM »
One more thing, if they turn out to be 1 ohm each, can I put 3 sets of 2 in series/parallel to get the same output, or will it work that way?

Cdog.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 08:43:47 PM by (unknown) »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2008, 09:07:14 PM »
The way you have them connected:


If those are 2 ohm resistors they'll draw about 13.5 amps each and dissipate about 365 watts each.  The set of 6 will be drawing 81 amps - far too much for your controller and dissipating 2190 watts.


If they're 1 ohm they'll draw about 27 amps each and dissipate about 730 watts each.  The set of 6 will be drawing 162 amps and dissipating 4380 watts.


So it's no wonder your controller decides it's being overloaded and immediately cuts out.


Presuming you haven't already fried the controller:


If they're one ohm resistors:  Hook two in a parallel group, three in another

parallel group, and hook the two groups in series.  (Keep the 6th one for a spare.)

That will give you 0.833333 ohms, draw about 32.4A and burn about 875 watts.  Maximum dissipation will be in the two-in-parallel group which will be burning about 263 watts.


If they're 2 ohm:  Parallel three groups of two-in-series.  That gives you 1.33333 ohm, 6.75 amps each pair for 20.25 total, 91 watts each for 546 total.  Puny but safe.


Another hookup for 2 ohms:  Hook two in a series group.  Then parallel that group with two individual resistors and keep the last two for spares.  That will give you 0.8 ohms, draw about 33.75A and burn about 910 watts.  Caution:  In this case the singleton resistors in the parallel group will be dissipating about 365 watts well above their rating.  So be sure they've got forced air cooling and are in a protective box to prevent flying sparks.  (If they fail they'll fail open and reduce your dump load, rather than throwing the load onto their partners and setting up a chain-reaction failure that leaves you with no load.)


Do these resistors have adjustable taps?  If so there are other ways to connect them to get what you want without overloading the resistors.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 09:07:14 PM by (unknown) »

Norm

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2008, 09:33:19 PM »
Hey Ghurd....with excess current like that he

could probably do some welding ?

« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 09:33:19 PM by (unknown) »

sdscott

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2008, 07:10:12 AM »
As UL states; "If they're 2 ohm:  Parallel three groups of two-in-series.  That gives you 1.33333 ohm, 6.75 amps each pair for 20.25 total, 91 watts each for 546 total."  This is "3 sets of 2 in series/parallel".  Can't wait to see the pics.


Cheers!

« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 07:10:12 AM by (unknown) »

sdscott

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2008, 07:14:31 AM »
Continued... so 1 ohm resistors would make 1/2 of 1.3333 ohms (doubling the watts).
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 07:14:31 AM by (unknown) »

SparWeb

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2008, 12:53:22 PM »
The Xantrex CC's all specify that they can only divert 80% of their rated current.  For your C35, that's 28 Amperes.


Now re-do all those resistor bank current and power calculations on that basis.


Do you have any idea if your batteries are full or not?


My C40 takes a few minutes to figure out what's going on after being disconnected.

It makes a very FAINT humming sound when diverting.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 12:53:22 PM by (unknown) »
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System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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cdog

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2008, 05:49:53 PM »
The batteries should be full, or very close to full.

I will check an individual resistor for resistance, and re-wire them as close as I can based on the reccomendations posted here.

I will hopefully get to do this tomorrow nite, and I will take some pics as well.

Thanks again to all, I will update soon,

Cdog.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 05:49:53 PM by (unknown) »

cdog

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2008, 06:29:26 PM »







Here are a few untill I get a better chance,

Cdog.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 06:29:26 PM by (unknown) »

kurt

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2008, 08:26:26 PM »
cdog, the max pixels size for posting on this site is 640 x 480 not 800 x 600 any future photos posted at this larger size will be removed. thankyou
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 08:26:26 PM by (unknown) »

sdscott

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2008, 04:41:40 AM »
cdog, are you on Grandmanan?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 04:41:40 AM by (unknown) »

cdog

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2008, 09:33:09 AM »
Sorry about the pix, I thought it was 100k limit.

Yes, I live on Grand Manan, i'ts at my hunting camp,lol!

Cdog.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 09:33:09 AM by (unknown) »

kurt

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2008, 12:34:22 PM »
the picture posting rules for this board are under 150KB and less than 640 x 480 pixels. same as always you can read the rules here. http://www.fieldlines.com/special/faq
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 12:34:22 PM by (unknown) »

cdog

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2008, 05:18:42 PM »
I have some more pics here, and I'm pretty sure there in the limits.....






I went out after work, and let it run for a bit, the reconfiguring of the resistors made everything much better. The resistors got very hot, and I will try and find another amp gage to see how much I am letting off.

One other thing I noticed is that the mill seems to run about 25 to 30 degrees from square to the wind......

This is before it starts to furl....

I have my offset about 9" to compensate for my heavily constructed tail, and was told before on here that I may need more tail vane area to keep it pointed in the wind, I would say this is what is happening????

I would have included a pic with the annemometer reading if I hadn't kicked the wire and ruined the plug, so I'll fix that as soon as I can.

I am also going to upload a small movie on youtube, and when I do I will post a link,thanks again to everyone,

Cdog.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 05:18:42 PM by (unknown) »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2008, 09:19:08 PM »
Half a KW.  Nice.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 09:19:08 PM by (unknown) »

Boondocker

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2008, 05:09:43 AM »
Congratulations on getting your project flying.  Looks great!


Nice touch installing a spinner on the prop.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 05:09:43 AM by (unknown) »

ZooT

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Re: I'ts alive!!
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2008, 11:24:01 PM »
Try moving your tail stop so the tail points, at rest, about 8-10 degrees past 90 degrees from the blades away from the offset...


With an offset, if you set your tail to rest at 90 degrees it's not going to face directly into the wind  because of the offset...as when the blade is spinning it's  another vane and the leverage of the offset comes into play

« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 11:24:01 PM by (unknown) »