remote start for diesel genset

[bahnfeldt]

i have searched the board for a remote start system that i can build i can't find one

can anyone give me any drawings for a simple start stop,without having to use a magnetic pickup on the fly wheel,i would like to use frquency if i can to moniter starting ciruit then have a contactor come on to connect gen outlet power,

the genset is 12volt system ,and i have a inverter 230volt supply i could pickup for control voltage if need be

[RP]

Mybe I'm missing something here...  If it s 12VDC generator then where will you get the frequency from.  

Can you tell us more about the engine and the generator?

[bahnfeldt]

sorry the alternator is 230 volt ac the starting system is 12v dc trying to discrible advailable power supplies with the genset not running

[maker of toys]

is it a remote start, or an autostart you're looking for?

a remote start is easy- a relay connected to provide power to the starter solenoid, maybe with the coil grounded through the (battery voltage) alternator field, so when the engine reaches sustain RPM and the (battery voltage) alternator cuts in, the relay drops out.

otherwise, a time- delay relay ('delay/off' on 'on') set to whatever the typical cranking time is will also work.

or, if you can hear the genset from where you're intending to install the remote start, a simple pushbutton to engage the relay will suffice.

for a "autostart" setup, some transfer switches have this built into them.  other options include a relay with a mains-voltage coild held in by mains power will hold the starter engaged until the genset is making power.  (this method is hard on a starter)

similarly, a time-delay relay ('pulse' on 'off')  would cause a crank event of whatever duration you deem to be best.

if relays are black magic for you, you're probably better off buying a commercial unit, preferably one made by the same people who built the genset.

in any event, if you're grid tied, PLEASE, oh PLEASE, use a transfer switch. . . failing to do so and killing a lineman is a criminal offence. (murder)

-Dan

[bahnfeldt]

Thanks Dan

I am in the electrical trade but have had no much experience in designing

That is why I was hoping to come across a good schematic for a remote start

For my genset I am not grid tried, and as live with no available power supply

The genset is run for mainly battery charging, an inverter does not have an analogue output so can use it for an auto start unless a get a plc with an analogue input.

This all starts getting complex so a auto start is what would be the best so least my wife can start it from the house

[veewee77]

auto-start means your wife wouldn't have to start it from the house. . .

remote start means she would have to start it from the house. . .

Which is it that you want?

One is extremely easy, the other is harder . . .

Doug

[wlcoldiron]

You can use a voltage control setting to cause the start of the diesel engine. By having the starter selinoid go through a oil pressure switch and then to ground will allow the engine to start and release the selinoid circut from ground when the oil pressure builds up.  You may have to have an adjustable sending unit to get theengine started befor the oil pressure opens the starter circuit.What kind of engine safety set up do you have? Mine has the Murphy type. Mine has about a 30 sec delay before the safety system begins.  WLC

[nanotech]

Auto-starters are a trade name for the things these folks sell :

http://www.bulldogsecurity.com/

They are actually remote starters.  I have had two of them and they are fantastic.  Still using one in my wife's car.

Very easy to wire up with detailed instructions as to what wire goes where, etc.  Range is pretty good (up to 100' for the non-extended range ones), they draw barely any power at all (wife's car sat for 3 months and the battery didn't wear down), and they have several cool alternate features (low battery start, low temp start), plus the electric door lock and the electric trunk release could be used for other stuff (remote control of lighting, etc) when used in a static installation (generator).

This has got me thinking........

[bahnfeldt]

remote start and stop am just worried that starter motor soliniold could be held in to long if there is no refernce form the engine when cranking speed is exceeded ,and i get a stuffed starter motor out of it ,am trying to avoid haveing to fit a  magnetic pick up to flywheel

there is no oil pressuse transducer

maybe i will have to bite the bullet and get a plc . i am wanting to get around to haveing a play with one for engine starting ,

was told by some one years ago all you need is 4 relays so that has stuck in my head

regards arny

[Old F]

Here is a web site that mite have what you need

http://www.atkinsonelectronics.com/list.asp?lt=alte&mn=1

Old F

If this dont work at least we know it should have

[oztules]

Arny...It may be simpler than that.

You can try three different systems easily. If you are familiar with electric control as you mentioned earlier, you will notice that in machines with a "green on button and a red stop buttom" they use a momentry On switch and a relay to electrically latch that On signal "on" after the button is released . This technique will suffice for the start button, so that switch debounce and non-starting on its own occurs.. (if you used a switch for start, and the motor stops, it will try starting again....if the engine stalls or is stopped for any other reason.... run out of feul etc. then you would have to turn the start switch off after starting sequence.)

The next problem to solve is the how to turn start signal off after speed is attained.

In the above Machine stop start sequence, the stop button interupts the latching circuit, and so the relay collapses, and we are back to the off condition at the beginning. Here we will have used a double pole normally open relay. One pole to latch the start signal, and one pole to drive the start relay... so pressing momentry start switch, latches in the signal, and pulls in the start relay...... now how to stop the start signal..

We can use manifold vacuume, so that as vacuum increases in the manifold, a vac switch will interrupt the start latch the same way as the stop buttom would have in the machine scenario. This is simple and any old car will have a vac switch involved in the machine management system somewhere..... The switch needs to be a normally closed device that opens when vac increases. This switch contact replaces the stop button in the machine example.... You will also find useful ones from the fill system in washing machines that sense the water level via water/air pressure.

Another way is to use the 240v ac alt output to open a 240v relay (will probably open at around 70v) and use this to open the latched start circuit. The drawback here is how long the alt takes to generate a relay voltage high enough to shut off the start latch.

Yet another way is to use the cooling air from the motor to move an air switch, and so when rpm increases, it pushes an air panel (on a lever) to depress a micro switch to shut off the start latch.... This system is used extensively as a control mechanism in the portable gas space heaters to check for fan velocity or airway obsruction before allowing ignition sequence to start... so it is not so off the wall as it sounds, and is really pretty idiotproof...

Once the latching circuit is stopped by what ever method, only by pressing the start button can it re-activate.

Personally, the vacuume system is the smallest and uses off the shelf parts off any car.

...........oztules

[bahnfeldt]

thanks for that coming at it from that angle for air switch that what i like about there forums

regards arny

[bahnfeldt]

this single clylinder diesel of mine has no lube oil shut down she is basic as but built like a brick $#|+ house

i am thinking of fitting a pressuse transducer to the l/o system so that would serve to as shut down and start interface

am still thinking might buy plc as good excuse to have a play