Author Topic: Transformers and load interrupter (Read 2610 times)

HomegrownPower · « **on:** November 14, 2007, 10:09:29 PM »

Hello everyone

I know most of you know I'm currently building a pma and have been getting lots of great help from many that view this site . I'm not sure how many of you know my long term goals . I hope to someday produce AC current and just it as is with no rectifiers , inverters and the such .

If I can ever acomplish this I know I'll need a regulating system and been told by some a transformer of somekind .

I go to many auctions and surf the net looking at auctions . I found one reciently with three General electric transformers and a Square D Load interrupter switch . What I'd like to know is if any of these could be used in a system like I eventually like wether it was a regular gen set or even the PMA i'm currently working on .

I'm only going to post the spect sheets on the transformers and the Square D load switch . I hope someone looking at this will know if these are the type of transformers needed to use / store AC current . Hmmm no place to summit a pic from here I'll post this then try to reply with pics

Thanks in advance Lonnie

HomegrownPower · « **Reply #1 on:** November 14, 2007, 03:17:03 PM »

Well shucks thats no good . I noticed the pic was real small when it uploaded to the site . Now it's enlarged you can't see it . I'f I can get my son to fix that when he returns I'll delete these two and try again

Lonnie

HomegrownPower · « **Reply #2 on:** November 14, 2007, 03:27:22 PM »

Try this again I made the pics big before I saved them .

Hope it works so you can read the writing this time Lonnie

wdyasq · « **Reply #3 on:** November 14, 2007, 04:58:55 PM »

Lonnie,

I really don't give a flip if you take this properly. You need to learn a bit about what you are doing, a BIG bit.

Electrical systems can't just be thrown together, no matter how it looks to the outside observer. This stuff can be dangerous. One can get killed playing with this stuff.

Go out and learn something. Local colleges have courses in electrical theory. There are prerequisites of a lot of math for most of those courses for a damn good reason.

If you care to design your own, knowledge of structure and aerodynamics will help. You don't need to get a degree. You just need some degree of knowledge to keep you and your family safe and keep teh house from burning down.

----

" I'm not sure how many of you know my long term goals . I hope to someday produce AC current and just it as is with no rectifiers , inverters and the such.

----

If that is really your goal, I'm not sure there is anyone here with the capabilities to help you. You are stating a quite complex and difficult problem. It is such a problem even the most educated here will have a bit of a problem just getting the progression of the solution in the proper order.

It is going to take a mind a bit better than one who relies on their child to post pictures.

Ron

kenputer · « **Reply #4 on:** November 14, 2007, 05:02:36 PM »

is that a transformer like the kids play with in the bottom picture?

HomegrownPower · « **Reply #5 on:** November 14, 2007, 05:27:08 PM »

Dag gum Ron I'm sorry if my questions and desire to play with a pma has upset you . I figured the pic problem out myself lol the boy wont be in till late

Your right though I'm new to this and you seem to be the one to ask this question to .

Is any of this any more dangerious than going to home depo and buying a 2kw gen set and hooking it to a house through cables of some sort ?

By the way I'd start with hooking things to an out building like my mill shead while in the learning stage and not my house lol . Actually my plans were to start with a string of outside lights . Probably a dumb idea but that was my thinking I'd just like to see some lights outside come on using non rectified ac current that I make . Then possably progress to a seperate fuse box and perhaps have lights in my home .

I'd consider rectifying and then inverting with out a doubt but my goal whether I ever get their or not is to make some of my electric without using batteries .

To be honest I thought while testing things I'd rectify one side purly for the purpose of documenting the results . I surley have no use for charging batteries .

Well anyhow Ron I'm truley sorry I upset you some . That wasn't my intentions at all it's just that I can find some cool junk at great prices and would keep my eyes open for the right parts if I knew what to look for .

HomegrownPower · « **Reply #6 on:** November 14, 2007, 05:51:45 PM »

Kenputer

Not sure it's a toy lol . I know knothing about these things . However if I knew what to get I'm capitable of getting someone to hook it up that does . Actually one guy could draw me a pic and I believe with a little patience it could be figured out .

Heres my little green toy pma comming right along good . Since I'm going to a steal plate in the center mag plate I'll have them make up the plates I need to mount the bearings to on each end while their at it . May push back my completion date of by the months end . Oh well it's been two or three weeks now a week late wont matter much .

To each and everyone may you make juice lol Lots of it lol

stephent · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2007, 07:51:31 PM »

I really don't think you would want to mess with the transformer pictured....I really really really don't think so.

Just a glance shows it does from the HV side--4160 volts or 7200 volts down to 120/240 low volts side.

Even sticking in 12 volts and having the transformer turned "backwards hookup" will produce many more volts out then you would think. The transformer has a 4160/120 turns ratio---you do the math.

Transformers don't "store" volts or amps much either, they only "transform" from one voltage to another.

Sticking a variable low frequency supply like a wind genny across a transformer wound/built for 60hz usually has a significant loss thrown into the deal too.

No rectifiers or controller and getting any kind of stable power output from a wind genny is wishful thinking outside of heating water or something similar.

elvin1949 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2007, 10:59:25 PM »

Ron is not trying to make you mad.He is trying

to keep you ALIVE.

latre

Elvin

wdyasq · « **Reply #9 on:** November 15, 2007, 06:06:00 AM »

"Is any of this any more dangerious than going to home depo and buying a 2kw gen set and hooking it to a house through cables of some sort ?"

By a quantum leap.

-----

" Well anyhow Ron I'm truley sorry I upset you some . That wasn't my intentions at all it's just that I can find some cool junk at great prices and would keep my eyes open for the right parts if I knew what to look for ."

You don't upset me in the least. What will upset me if some flippin' fool gets themselves and/or their family killed or maimed and the 'do-gooders' get their poli-dickin' friends to pass laws that get me in trouble because THEY got their stupid arse dead.

It does no good to keep a grudge against dead people.

But, have fun. And find something safe to play with like Crocodiles, Cobras or C4.

Ron

dinges · « **Reply #10 on:** November 15, 2007, 06:12:26 AM »

"And find something safe to play with like Crocodiles, Cobras or C4."

...or Combines...

wooferhound · « **Reply #11 on:** November 15, 2007, 06:57:50 AM »

---I hope to someday produce AC current and just it as is with no rectifiers , inverters and the such .---

The only way I know to do this is to go to Home Depot and buy a 2kw generator and wire it to the house

---If I can ever accomplish this I know I'll need a regulating system---

I've never heard of an AC regulating system. The only way you are going to be able to regulate the voltage from an AC Genny is to control the speed to a very specific unchanging RPM, it will be a mechanical speed regulator, not electrical

---I found one recently with three General electric transformers and a Square D Load interrupter switch .---

If what you are planning could possibly work, you would not need transformers. You would simply build the generator to produce 120vac, and you would need to lock the RPM to produce the 60 cycle per second AC

---I hope someone looking at this will know if these are the type of transformers needed to use / store AC current---

Transformers do not store Voltage AC or DC. They just change AC voltage from one value to another. It is impossible to store AC current. First you need to rectify the AC voltage and store it in a battery, then you can invert it to AC voltage when you need it.

AC voltages have a Frequency. In the USA it is 60hz. The genny that you Want to build would need to make your 120vac while it is spinning at a locked unchanging RPM that gives you 60hz. If the genny spins faster the voltage and frequency will go Up. If it spins slower the frequency and voltage will go down. Eather way it's not usable. and what about when the wind is not blowing, or it's blowing too slow to get the frequency or voltage up high enough to use. you would have to disconnect your loads untill the wind speed increased.

Speaking of Loads, If you accidentally had the genny spinning at the specific RPM to produce the proper power, as soon as you add a load to the genny it will slow down, you can't use that.

Since you don't know what a transformer is I think you should abandon your impossible idea until you can learn enough to know what is possible

wooferhound · « **Reply #12 on:** November 15, 2007, 07:06:08 AM »

---Hmmm no place to summit a pic from here I'll post this then try to reply with pics---

When posting a New story, the Add Photo function is on the righthand side of the page and up near the top.

When Commenting on a story the Add Photo Function is on the lefthand side of the page, and down near the bottom

phil b · « **Reply #13 on:** November 15, 2007, 10:25:21 AM »

The 48 volt DC generators you see posted here have the potential of producing over 120 VAC in high winds if they were not clamped by batteries. Mine produced over 120 VDC and let the majic blue smoke out of TWO Xantrex C-40's. Yes, TWO. One reason folks here build relatively low voltage machines is that they are safer.

Most wind systems, large and small, will convert the power from AC to DC because it allows you to combine more than one generator and more than one phase.

If you use 'low voltage' you can still hook them to the grid with a margin of safety by using an inverter specially made for that purpose...if that's your goal.

The transformers you have could probably make someone that builds Tesla coils very happy. I don't see any use for them in a small wind system as they are.

Don't let me discourage you. I would suggest looking at what other folks are doing and copy them...especially if it's your first unit.

Phil

HomegrownPower · « **Reply #14 on:** November 16, 2007, 01:35:02 AM »

stephent

Thank you for the answer using constructive critisium as opposed to saying the same thing in a belittling manner . Constructive critisium I need and can posaably learn from it.

I know I'm green as hell but I take it your saying a transformer is used to step up the voltage ?? .

I guess in all fairness I should have explained I'm not making a wind jenny figured most had been following my questions and would know that . My PMA will turn with machanical power of somekind and regulating the speed to a constant speed wouldn't be out of the question if no other way but pullies . Anyway to regulate it so it can be used is what I'm after .

Anything but batteries really is the main goal . I don't care if I rectify and then invert or use the straight AC the PMA makes . I guess thats what I should have asked . I don't have to make a lot of electric I'd just like to do it with NO BATTERY bank to maintain. And of course I'd like to use it without batteries either .

So I may have explained my question wrong to start with my bad . Oh well I bought the lot and will learn what they are if I ever use them . I'f nothing else I'll junk them and use the metal boxes lol .

I must have read it wrong when I was reading about the transformers . Now I"m thinking it was the inverter that had the transformer in the url I was reading .

My main desire was to know the different components needed to make and use juice without batteries . Plus what devises they may be obtained from that way I could be looking for bargans that could possably be used one way or another .

Thanks again for your post Lonnie.

HomegrownPower · « **Reply #15 on:** November 16, 2007, 01:48:37 AM »

Elvin

Possably so and I'm not mad lifes just to short to be getting mad at every na-sayer one will run across in life . He can flip or panic or belittle me a bit more if that helps him feel that I'm now somehow safer . Personaly I feel he has some need to illistrate his superior knowledge on a subject and throw in a few jabs / low blows while he does it . Otherwise the remarks about my "mind / education " would not have been necessary . To bad he can't do it constructivly people might learn something from him .

Have a good one Lonnie

HomegrownPower · « **Reply #16 on:** November 16, 2007, 02:54:25 AM »

I didn't upset you Ron lmao . Actually I believe that but you sure sounded like you were needing a valum to me lol But no you wasn't upset you just felt like going off .Chill out some no ones asking you to sign off on anything I do here . You post your reply as if I'm stupid enough to plug something in without knowing first and that your concerned about me lol give us a break we know better .

Ron in all honesty people might learn something from you if you wasn't so hell bent on belittling them with your put downs all your nay say answers . Your little remarks about my mind and PC abilities reflect a good light on your true objectives . Your more interested in pointing out how much you know while explaining how little someone else does know and jab at them also all in the cloak of being worried about my safty .

How could I possably get YOU in trouble ? My wirings here is up to code ( isn't yours) If not that sounds like Ron taking the chance of getting Ron in trouble and has nothing to do with me . And if I ever hook in home made power to my house it will be just as legal . You should keep yours just as legal and worry about Ron keeping Ron out of trouble and not trying to POLICE the PMA building of others .

So you can call me a flippin fool if that makes you feel better about your situation . You can put down my questions and lack of knowledge in this area too. You can even knock my mind and my PC skills and post your na say comments to every post that comes along I don't care lol . I hope it all gives you what your seeking

However two things you can not do and one is to discourage me . I'm use to people telling me I can't do something only to prove them wrong in a matter of time . Everyone told me I couldn't run a one inch water line above ground without it freezing in sub zero wether . lmao that shows what they know not only have I done it I've been doing it for 14 years and it's never froze to date lol .

Point being I'll build my little PMA , I'll spin it faster than any wind turbine too . And I'll figure a way to safly use the stuff if it's only in my out buildings or a night light . I'll do all this at a fraction of the cost I've seen you calabrate for simular setups and I'll do it without batteries .

Now if you have something to add thats constructive and related to me reaching that goal then good I'd like to hear it . Otherwise for the sake of respect to the people who make this site possable and to the readers as well lets just agree to ignore each other .

Lonnie

HomegrownPower · « **Reply #17 on:** November 16, 2007, 03:22:56 AM »

Phil

Hey man no discouragement with your post thats what I need constructive info . Hell I know I have no idea thats why I'm asking questions .

Now that I've thought about it more I think it was inverter plans that called for the transformers my bad .

Man my goal is to make power and not have a battery bank to maintain / fool with . rectifying the current then inverting is ok as long as no batteries . I did get the impression that some had been able to use the straight AC current made . I could have miss understood that though .

Plus I'm particular fond of finding industrail grade components even if they are over kill for the job it's getting a set up that will last without this blue smoke lol that concerns me .

Another thing I should have added for new readers is that I"M NOT MAKING A WIND MACHINE lol . I have no intentions of making juice depending on the wind to blow . So regulating the speed to a certain rpm is no bigging . However my system will need something to regulate things for when the load does change if nothing but a gov of somekind . I really have no problem with making to much power and dumping the extra along if thats the only safe way .

Another thing I should point out is that I have no intentions to adding this to the grid . Nor do I ever plan to hook my home made current to the grid box . Not knowing much about this I'd be afraid the power would go out and perhaps my current would blead through the lines and zap some unsuspecting electrician . Plus I have no desire to go through the red tape involved with trying to grid tie

My goals to keep this outside and perhaps if and when I figure out enough perhaps adding a pannel box in an out side building and then using it for dedicated jobs .

Anyhow thanks for the constructive answers people can learn from very helpfull

Lonnie

dinges · « **Reply #18 on:** November 16, 2007, 04:24:50 AM »

Gee Lonny.

Perhaps Ron cared enough to reply to you (twice).

Personally I haven't replied. I had my reasons. I'm sure a lot more people have been reading your post and simply haven't bothered. It would've been a waste of time and effort (IMHO; excuse my bluntness). I realized this after I replied to another story of yours. This post confirmed it. (again, forgive my directness)

So don't be too harsh on my friend Ron just because he doesn't tell you what you want to hear. Or because you don't like the tone of his voice.

Sometimes being the nay-sayer is the kindest thing one can do for a person. But, if you disagree with me, it might be best to surround yourself with yes-men. Who applaud and approve of everything you (plan to) do.

As far as demonstrating his superior knowledge goes - I disagree with you here. If he really felt the need to demonstrate that (there are a few topics on which it IS superior to most in here) you'd be baffled by what you saw. He solved problems that you never knew existed in building windturbine blades.Don't take my word for that - google this board to see for yourself if you care to.

Peter.

wdyasq · « **Reply #19 on:** November 16, 2007, 07:32:45 AM »

Lonnie,

Where I am now, I can walk a horse across any river when it is not flooding. If I were raised in this area, and had never seen or read about larger rivers, I might say, "I can walk 'ol Jesse (my fictitious horse) across any river." Those who had never been out of the county might think it was the truth. Those who had read about the Amazon, Nile and Mississippi rivers but had not traveled might think me ignorant. Those who had seen mighty rivers would call me a fool or stupid.

I just reread my posts, and yours. I never said you didn't have the ability to learn, AKA - STUPID. I simply stated electricity making is not a trivial endeavor. I also suggested you need to learn a bit before you can effectively attack your stated project.

I am not worried about your safety. I am worried things you might try will get me regulated. I also try to keep folks from wasting money as I never seem to have enough in my life to afford to waste it on unworkable projects.

I also mention I'm not sure anyone here has the ability to build a wind turbine that can effectively run variable loads without some sort of storage medium. In a spinning generator, that medium is the inductance of the coils in the generator and is quite short in duration.

You won't have to worry about me replying directly to anything more you post Lonnie. It is obvious you cannot handle the truth.

Ron

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Author Topic: Transformers and load interrupter (Read 2610 times)