Author Topic: WISP UPS idea  (Read 4550 times)

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Boss

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WISP UPS idea
« on: May 01, 2010, 10:23:22 AM »
Howdy gang
Y'all have been invaluable with every project I have worked on so I figure you would be able to help with this rather unusual use of the devices we use every day.
Okay, first in case you don't know, a WISP is a wireless Internet service provider.
In this case I am looking for a power solution for the small WISP I work for.
I finally went back to work yesterday, and I don't mind telling ya they worked me like a red headed step child, I am hurtin big time this morning.
So the power went out in (little- old whatever you want to call it) Las Vegas while I was in the shop programming a Mikrotik routerboard. No big thing, but for the IT engineer it was a different story. The generator didn't kick in, and if it wasn't for a dozen UPS devices on various servers and the fiber MUX the whole WISP would have crashed.
I asked them why the relied on a generator when they could use a system like Qwest uses, coincidentally running the same C&D sealed cell batteries I now have on my wind turbine?  See: http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,143288.0.html
I don't have the exact numbers for their power usage, I can tell you that the generator is 10KW, they have at least 6 -  1KW UPSs
Couldn't the Wisp, employ a high quality inverter like these:http://www.affordable-solar.com/inverter-grid-tie-batteries.htm
 which could take the power from the generator  and charge a properly sized bank of batteries, replacing all of the UPSs?
Brian Rodgers
My sustainable lifestyle site http://outfitnm.com no ads, not selling anything either

rossw

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Re: WISP UPS idea
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2010, 04:58:34 PM »
I started our areas first ISP back in early 1995 (and still run it). About 10 years of that I've run wireless to customers not better served via other means. As part of this, we ran a number of power systems - at remote sites for access points, at our main POP and remote POPs etc.

The "conventional wisdom" is to run UPSs for a number of reasons - you can do as I did, and run a decent sized UPS in each rack (which helps manage loads and make logical separation). It also lets you monior and log temperatures, current, voltage, battery state for each rack.

I also ran an autostart diesel genset with automatic changeover switch for the computer room.

Nowdays, I have most of the equipment in major datacentres in sydney and melbourne where all the aircon and power are "someone elses" problem, however what remains of my old office setup (now at home) runs 100% offgrid using exactly as you say - a reasonable bank (72 x 2V/500AH) of batteries and a 5KW continuous pure sine inverter.

The UPSs are much less efficient, but provide a wealth of "environmental monitoring" that is useful if not critical to a business.

REdiculous

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Re: WISP UPS idea
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 05:44:04 AM »
Quote
The "conventional wisdom" is to run UPSs for a number of reasons - you can do as I did, and run a decent sized UPS in each rack (which helps manage loads and make logical separation). It also lets you monior and log temperatures, current, voltage, battery state for each rack.

That seems totally backwards to my "common sense" way of seeing things...

I understand the logical separation benefit, but I think it's even more logical to think in terms of the function the equipment performs. Computers compute and power usually comes from the wall. Computers and UPSs (what's plural for UPS? UPSupplies; so just a small 's' since it doesn't belong to us) aren't really related except in the mobile/laptop space where it's a must. The computer doesn't care where the battery and/or inverter are and close proximity can be detrimental to either or both systems if the combined heat builds up.

If you had a rack of UPSs in a separate room it would make more sense. Then you're only dealing with that system by itself and it's away from other critical systems. It might be cool to gather all kinds of neat data about what's going on in one room but there's no reason you can't measure the same stuff if they're separated by a wall...I've found that if there's one way to do something there's at least one other, besides tons of ways that'll never work. To each their own they say. :)
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Boss

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Re: WISP UPS idea
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2010, 06:41:21 AM »
Everyone who knows me, knows I will write at the drop of a hat, usually even when I don't know what to say. This is the first thread where I haven't. This is because this  isn't my business, indeed this is the first time in 20 years I haven't been the boss. A friend and I started our areas first sDSL company. Like many partnerships between friends it was doomed, it was fun while it lasted. Really long story truncated completely, I now work part time for a couple of guys who at the time had only a dial-up ISP. While I dallied in PC repair for a year they started a WISP, that was five years ago.

I love the work, I am their only installer, and a sub-contractor too boot. What they choose to do is dependent on many more things than I am privy too. I gave them the information on the Xantrec inverter battery charger, I think it would be much more effective than a bunch of UPSs and a standby generator which btw puts out crappy enough power the UPSs won't switch back to AC even if it did turn on. I do understand though that we are in the middle of a possibly never ending recession, and glad to have any paycheck at the end of the week. I think the inverter to run everything is a good plan, I told them so, what they do with the info is up to them
 
Brian Rodgers
My sustainable lifestyle site http://outfitnm.com no ads, not selling anything either