Ceiling fan Alt.

[DragonFly III]

I was looking at these 2 ceiling fans I acquired recently and got to thinking. (There was a lot of clanking and clinking in my head, figured it was an idea)

What do you all think about stacking the stators and using larger mags that will cover both of them.
Or, cut the copper off, then stack them and rewind them.  You could even still use the top and bottom plate to hold the bearings, reinforced of course.  Some fans use pretty thin metal and others use thicker metal but spot weld it to the thin metal case.  Or shove them in some pipe and make my own assembly.

So,  any replies?

[ghurd]

By the time all the work is done, it ends up being the long and difficult way to get to a motor conversion.
It is a lot easier just to start with a larger motor.
G-

[DragonFly III]

So you don't think there is anything to learn from this project.  I've never done a motor conversion before.  I was also thinking of some of the radial designs and maybe it would be more of a sorce for a stator core than a motor conversion.  IE brakedrum alt. 

If I stake them say 3 or 4 high would it not make a good laminated core?

I don't know.  I have them sitting there and wanted to make some use of them even if it would qualify as a high school project. (I've long been out of highschool)

charge some small batteries for accent led lighting?

[ghurd]

Well...
Stack some stators,
mount them in something,
make a rotor,
make ends to hold it all together,
buy bearings and fit them into the ends,
tediously wind expensive copper on the stator,
and when it's done... it is basically a motor... except overly complex and inside out.

Can do a quickie conversion on a ceiling fan motor, but they tend to cog very badly, and make high volts and Very low amps.
I think most people learn it is not worth the effort, compared to something 'more conventional'.

Might look for a 850RPM (single speed), single phase  1/2HP motor.  Pretty easy to stick 6 magnets (or groups of magnets) on the rotor/armature and have something that works a lot better.
Just my 2 cents.
G-

[DragonFly III]

ghurd your 2 cents has come to be worth 2 thousand.

Your no fun though.  raining on my parade like that.

I thought I had something or atleast another source for stator cores. 

The scrap yards in the area do not sell scrap after it has been recieved so I can't get any motors to get the cores out of. 

I do have a half horse motor but I believe its around 1740 RPM. 

[ghurd]

1750 RPM needs 4 magnets.  More poles is better, but 1750RPM works.

Stop at a furnace shop?  (calling usually does not go over so well)  Tell them the basic plan, ask if they have a scrap 110V 850RPM single speed with bearings (as opposed to bushings), and how much they want for it. 
Offering to pay means you are not a 'scrapper' out for free stuff, and they drive the local places crazy so the shops have a bad attitude until you offer cash, but they usually don't want it.  Just my experience.
And there is always the newspaper or ebay or flea markets...
Or neighbors, who after they found out I wanted a couple, seem to bring me crappy (useless) motors faster than I can stack them someplace.
G-

[DragonFly III]

is that 4 mags taking up the entire circumference?

[ghurd]

More is better usually, but its not really necessary to completely cover the rotor with neos.

Read up on anti-cogging measures, but with multiple neos per pole, I just put them on at a bit of an angle (skewed pattern).

Bigger neos (within reason) is easier.  Epoxying a bunch of neos, close together, with the same pole up, is not the easiest thing to do.

Naturally Zubbly's work is a must read, even if you do not understand it yet.
SparWeb has done some very nice posts too.

Spdlmt150 posted one I always liked, very fancy job, but the basic ideas are all there-
http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,128761.0.html

It doesn't have to be pretty for the first one.
Gosh...  I made this and it works quite well-
(huge pixels but only 59K)
http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/2050/3phHD.jpg

[DragonFly III]

Do you count the number of coils to figure out how many mags you need?

[tecker]

I 've done it twice it's fine as a single phase center tap . Use  a 3'8 rod in two of the holes in the center tack weld or bolt it . You need a long shaft on one side ..Wind it with 4 20's use tape to cover the edges when you wind it ..

[hiker]

thought about doing the same .......picked up a couple of 3/4hp[two pole] motors awhile back...the can is big enough to fit
two of the stators in[lams]...theres just a couple of small dimples that hold the stator[lams] in place..
anyway..i tossed one in my fire pit to make it easyer to remove the wire..then knocked out the lams..was easy to do..[but do it slow and even]...hacked sawed one side of the wires off then pulled out from the other side...
sure it will work!...file the dimples from the can when you reinstall the two lams[center them for your new rotor]then take a center punch and make some new dimples to hold the lams or just super glue in place[dam things go in tight so it dosent take much to hold them.. again go in slow and even]
you can make new wire insulaters from plastic table matts..cut one to size then copy..then to keep the wires in the slots..cut some
thin wood strips..to size and insert in slots..[popsicle sticks]only need those on the last set of coils..super glue in place or epoxy...
my motor is a 24 slot..so i will wave wind 3 sets of 8 coils[like a car alt]..and 8 poles[mags]..you dont have to have one long mag
you can use a number of small  circular mags ..for each pole..
as far as winding the wire for each coil .. i just scramble wind them.[not the best way-but i really dont care about a loss of a volt or two]..just reach inside the rotor with your hand and wind for as many turns that will fit[or what ever turns you need]..keep in mind you need to leave some room to fill the other slots ..so dont over wind..
and for a rotor i use all thread with plywood disks..then topped off with metal pipe..run a few set screws down to the allthread..
    with two nuts[super glued] on each side of the rotor or more[plus whashers]..if the all thread is smaller than your bearing ..use some metal pipe for a insert or even copper pipe..what ever makes a good tight fit[saw in half or single cut  and slid around the shaft].
 and if your going to wave wind ..theres a trick to that also..insert some longer sticks than the slots into the empty phase slots..so your wire wont fall out..as you wind.....
  so far none of my plywood disk rotors with metal pipe have not failed ..even when powered by a gas engine..with a big load...
any way this is the way IVE done it on a few of my car alt and motor conversions..hope it works for you......
http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,143878.0.html

[ghurd]

Do you count the number of coils to figure out how many mags you need?

Yes... OR can go by the rated RPM.
2 pole is ~3550RPM at 60Hz.  (N-S)
4 pole is ~1750RPM at 60Hz.  (N-S-N-S)
6 pole is ~825RPM at 60 Hz.  (N-S-N-S-N-S)

If you are going to put a lot of time, effort and money in it, a 3-phase is better.

If you find an old motor under the work bench, pack it full of neos and see what comes out?   

[DragonFly III]

My problem With motor conversion in the lack of a lathe.  I have no way to acurately turn down the rotor.  Hicker did just present a solution for that problem.  I can take a steel pipe that will fit the bill and then make a core to center it. 

I wonder if my drill press and angle grinder would work to turn it down.

I do have one of those tools mechanics use to make sure things are true.  It reminds me of a micrometer but it sits on a magnet and you place the pin on what ever your measuring.  The pin goes in and out and you read the dial which measures in .001" increments.

Before I bought a micrometer this is how I measured my wire.  I stuck the metal on a plate of steel and made sure the pin was against the plate and zeroed.  I slid the wire under the measurment pin and read away.

[DragonFly III]

is it possible to go to 8 mags to lower the rpms more.

[ghurd]

A round rotor is not the best idea anyway.
It has a required extra air gap between the neo and stator lams.  Round rotor adds more air under the neo.
(unless you have some suitable curved neos)
Notice Spdlmt150's rotor, how there is no air under the neos, and he obviously could have made it any shape he wanted.

I did a bunch with a hack saw and file, and they all worked!  (I know a guy who did a much larger one that way too)



Just need to be careful not to cut past the AL 'stripes' or the iron core falls apart into a stack of washers.   

MUST either use the proper number of poles, or completely rewind the coils from scratch to match the magnet pole count.
Complete rewind is probably not the best idea for the first try.

If you want to go through all the rewind troubles, definitely want to start with a 3-ph with lam tooth/slot count suitable to the desired finished pole count.
Honestly, thats a pretty serious project for a first try.  Lots of things to consider that should have been learned with a smaller project, IMHO.

[SparWeb]

Earlier this year a member of the forum was making the motor conversion rotor by sawing it down.  It sounds crude, but it did work.  He clamped the rotor with the shaft pointing straight up and sawed down through the cylinder of the rotor, lopping off sides of it until a square rotor was left.  The rest he took off and smoothed with a file.  Keeping the sides straight was the only trick, since he was cutting a 5 inch long rotor.

I'm only lucky to have a lathe and milling machine that I can use sometimes.  Otherwise I'd be faced with the same problem as you.

[ghurd]

Here is one, which is what I, and possibly Steven, recalled.
http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,132843.0.html

Thats a lot of hack sawing!
G-

[SparWeb]

That's the thread, all right.

How come I couldn't find it?  Earlier, I went and looked up Adam's user id, found it, but in the list of his postings, this did not come up.
Oh Doesn't matter

I've got you Ghurd to look it up for me

Thanks!

[jimovonz]

I've had trouble myself looking up old posts using the board search function - even when I know the username of the poster. I have much better luck using Google and restricting the search to the fieldlines domain and including the username in the search i.e:
typing 'site:fieldlines.com adaml motor conversion' into the Google search field. The first hit is what your looking for but is a version suited to printing. To get what your after you need to remove the 'action=printpage;' from the url. This is typical of many Google search results for fieldlines.com