Author Topic: Watering SLAs, take II  (Read 2795 times)

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Madscientist267

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Watering SLAs, take II
« on: December 07, 2010, 08:17:44 AM »
After a failed attempt to revive an SLA with a shorted cell:

http://fieldlines.com/board/index.php/topic,144491.0.html

... I decided to try it on a slightly healthier subject, and so far the results are promising.

This one is a 12V 5AH SLA that had lost some capacity (presumably from being on float for extended periods of time) and just wasn't performing up to snuff when put to the test.

I more or less was aware of it's entire service 'career', and this is what made it so appealing to try again with the watering idea. It had never been abused in the sense of multiple C discharge rates or left for dead or anything, it just floated for too long and gave up too much water to hit full capacity anymore.

The fun part is dealing with striation that happens as a result of adding water to the cells; since the electrolyte isn't freely floating around inside, I got creative with my mind's eye and ran where it took me.

These are the steps I took to revive it:

In as much of a charged state as I could get it, I watered it (very slowly, drop by drop) until I could just barely see a layer of 'flowing' water above the plates/separators. This took several passes, just going around to the next cell as the last one soaked in. Keeping air from being trapped was a challenge also since the hole for the valve boot is so small. I used an old irrigation syringe I got from the oral surgeon when my son had his wisdom teeth pulled. Works like a champ. Just gotta be patient.

Once topped up with water, let it sit overnight on a very light floating charge, the idea being to just stir it a little. I didn't want to over-do it, concerned about oxidation of the plates.

Then a nice slow discharge at about the C/20 rate, in this case into a buck converter driving an LED. I didn't get all scientific about plotting the current draw or anything, because at this point I was not super hopeful, just curious if this was plausible or not. Took it down to 12.00V and disconnected it.

After the slow discharge, ran a slow charge, somewhere in the C/30 to C/25 range, and let it come all the way up to 15V. This took a while obviously, and once it hit 15V, I held it there for another 24 hours. Wanted to make sure I got an even better stir.

Next, same as before, slow discharge at C/20, into the buck/LED. Ran almost twice as long this time around before hitting the 12V mark.

Feeling froggy, I took it all the way down to 10.5V, disconnected it and let it sit for an hour or so, then began the ultra slow charge. C/50'ish.

She's been on charge now for a couple days, and is grabbing ahold very well, and every once and a while I do a rudimentary check for impedance, looks promising. Current terminal voltage ATM is 12.55, with charge current something like 100mA or so. I had to bump it up a notch as it got over 12V, since the voltage difference between the charger and the battery was diminishing. This just involved changing a ballast resistance to keep it around 100mA. Might have to do it again in a couple days. Will see.

Next time I do one, I'll go quite a bit more scientific (plots, graphs, etc) but I was on more of a 'ok I wanna know if this is really feasible or not', and not so concerned with the details of how much gain I got from it.

More to come as it progresses...

Steve


The idea here was simple, really. Coax the dried out portions of the plates into giving up any sulfate into the electrolyte, since there's no real way to 'stir' an SLA.

 
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bob g

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Re: Watering SLAs, take II
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 12:11:31 PM »
if you are feeling like really going the full route, try this

drain the battery as low as you can get it, then short the cell posts for 24hours, this assures it is dead,dead, and did i say dead.

then recharge to full, drain and repeat that process 3 times,

in the end it is said that many of these cells will recover to about 95% of original capacities.

the technology does not require much water, the plates are mostly just moist so stirring of electrolyte is out
of the question.

building  little heat will also help to distribute the water as vapor through the cell structure.

the above process is outlined in the ample power book, either in "wiring for 12volts" or "living on 12 volts"

apparently the agm batteries that are built to some euro standard can actually sit dead for up to a month
and be recovered by that process to about 95% and will improve even more over time from then on.

the nice thing about learning on a 5amp hour cell is it is much cheaper than a 105amp hour cell, and what is learned
can be very useful for the more expensive batteries.

bob g
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
www.microcogen.info and a SOMRAD member

Madscientist267

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Re: Watering SLAs, take II
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 01:10:57 PM »
Good points, haven't tried the shorting thing (for fear of cell reversal), but might do it for giggles at some point just to see.

Main problem I've had with killing them beyond 'dead' is that they have a tendency to develop shorted cells, which can be very difficult (if not impossible, nevermind dangerous) to eliminate.

It's true, there's not much water inside of these things, I think all in all I put maybe 2 oz total in the 6 cells, and actually shy of that. The first one I attempted, I flooded them a little too much I think and that may have contributed to a short developing, although not sure.

I'm with you on giving them a good solid discharge all the way down however, but beyond dead I'm not sure. I'm also looking at the point in time when the water gets added as a potential variable (dead vs 'charged')... Thinking it may make a difference in the distribution of the final composition of the electrolyte (striation, etc).

Problem is, they are all their own creatures, and it's so difficult to be completely scientific about every aspect; they all behave differently, and what works on one may not work at all on another. And then there's repeatability, even with batteries that were treated identically during their original service life.

I suppose the best way to do this would be to take several handfuls of them and expose them each to similar use/abuse (in groups of say 3 to eliminate wildcard issues like manufacturing defects), and then follow very stringent and methodical recovery methods in a 'matrix' sense, so that you end up with a sample of every conceivable combinations of use/abuse/charging/standing and so on.

I don't exactly have the money to go and buy all new batteries just for the purpose of finding out the best method to rejuvenate them, so its on a case by case basis right now.

Unfortunately, I have a $#!+load of the 12V 5AH SLA's that are all from the same manufacturer, subject to roughly the same abuse, just filling up pallets at work. The unfortunate part in that is that they are from internal UPS units for cash registers, and have been so horribly abused that they are all so beyond dead that only the lead scroungers want them. Cracked cases, corrosion everywhere, impedance in the hundreds of K ohms (even some in M ohm range), and they are of no use to even bother trying. Kinda sucks, because there's probably 3 or 400 of them. Sigh.

So, as I learn, I post, and as I post, I get responses (thanks for the ideas BTW) and maybe someday between those of us that are interested in finding out what it takes to keep these things alive for the longest time possible will collectively come up with a solution.

FLAs are easy. Water, charge, discharge, equalize, water, charge, discharge.... hahah no fun in that! Time to master the enigma that is the mysterious SLA! ;D

Steve
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 01:13:27 PM by Madscientist267 »
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Madscientist267

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Re: Watering SLAs, take II
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2010, 08:52:46 PM »
This is working rather well, I believe I've come close to 2x the 'original' capacity... Going to give it a go with a fixed resistor (at the rated C/20) and plot the discharge curve and find out how it now matches up to the label. Unfortunately I didn't take this route as a 'before' test, so I don't really know, but I can tell you it's giving up MUCH more energy now (as well as taking a lot longer to charge)...

Steve
 
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bob g

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Re: Watering SLAs, take II
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2010, 11:01:53 PM »
what is working quite well?

what procedure are you using to get to twice the capacity?

are you loading them at c20 down till dead, or what voltage?

bob g
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
www.microcogen.info and a SOMRAD member

Madscientist267

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Re: Watering SLAs, take II
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2010, 11:14:15 PM »
LOL Guess I should have clarified...

I have a buck converter (cell charger) modified to give 0-5V output from 12V input, and I leave it set at 'LED heatsink just barely comfortable to touch for any length of time'... Not entirely scientific. But gives reasonable results at least for seeing changes in production time.

Generally down to 12.0V now, but originally was going down to 10.5V. The idea was (as stated) to create sulfation by migration, then use that migration to smooth out the distribution of H2SO4 in the charged electrolyte. This is entirely theoretical, but since the battery was so dry when I started, and capacity has basically doubled since starting this (currently on cycle 4, discharging ATM), it is doing much better. I'm at the home stretch of 2 days now rather than just shy of 1 in the beginning... so apparently capacity has been increased by just over 2:1.

I'm not going to do the 'kill it 6 feet under' approach on this particular battery, because I think it might do more damage than good at this point, and I have had such good results.

Once I find a couple more that are just healthy enough to give this treatment to, I will plot each discharge curve and lay them all out on 1 graph to give the results a hands down visualization of the improvement.

If I find one thats bad off enough, and doesn't have cracks in the case, I'll do the whole water, slow charge, slow discharge with plot, water, slow charge, slow discharge with plot thing taking it all the way into the ground on each pass to test your theory about the full discharges.

Rest assured, I'm going to get to the bottom of this - maybe even with treatment profiles based on different actual capacity levels (vs stated capacity) and see where this goes. I'm a little irritated at the industry at the moment with the whole 'maintenance free' thing. I hope to show that SLA turned slightly FLA is the ideal balance.

We will see. Throw ideas at me (or even ship me your curiosities if you're feeling that froggy), I have no issue testing them with an eventually completely standardized method, with data reports for each stage. You tell me when I ship them back to you if I've made a significant difference for real world usage.  8)

Steve
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ruddycrazy

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Re: Watering SLAs, take II
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2010, 12:01:15 AM »
Not long after I bought the farm 7 years ago I got 30 off 6 volt 105ah agms from a scrap yard for $240. Last year a few of them bulged and after I smashed the cover off one battery it was dry as a bone. All I did with the other batteries that were still good was burnt a small hole with my soldering iron and filled the 3 cells in each battery with a very dilute solution of sulfuric acid. Then I mixed up some 2 part epoxy to seal the holes.  I now have 16 of those cells on a array down at the house that powers the fridge and this computer and with 350 watts of PV most of the time the batteries are disconnected from the pv. I reckon I'll never see another bargin but I do reckon those batteries will see another 3 years. So 10 years of a heap of batteries scored from a scrap yard aint a bad deal and I must say the guy who gave me the tip was my good online friend who is no longer with us Zeus.

Cheers Bryan