Solar Village Power in China using Nickel Iron Battery system.

[TomW]

I think Ian gave up.

This forum is apparently just too hard to convince.

A lot of good points that need addressing to round it out but I think we are left to sort it out on our own if we want real answers.

We will see.

Tom

[isoutar]

To those who have NiFe questions ... do your research.  I have no intention of proving anything ... the facts are there in the links of this thread.    Do your research and you will be most surprised by what you discover.

Please research the links I have sent ... I have already years ago dug through the information before I purchased and started using NiFe for my home storage.   I know from practical experience that they work very well for renewable storage.

Don't  forget that the Battcon conference  is coming up in May and you can talk to one of North America's formost Lead acid battery researchers Peter DeMar who is thrilled with NiFe batteries from first hand research experience this year.   He was working with 70 year old cells made by Edison's factory and was able to bring them back to full functionality.    He did not believe the historical writings either but decided to find out through his companies battery testing and rejuvenating technology.   When they came back to life ... that is when he started the process of establishing an industrial IEEE standard for nickel iron as a spin off from the NiCad standards that exist already.   He will be presenting some of his findings at the conference.   He is North America's formost expert on Lead Acid batteries.

I will not be back to the forum ... good luck researching Edison's most prised invention.

Ian Soutar

[rossw]

Don't  forget (advertisment deleted)

I will not be back to the forum ...

Oh, boo hoo, how ever will we survive??

[bob g]

Ian:

i hope you haven't  given up, cuz i still got issues with your claims

your assertion that one must limit the discharge to about 20% depth of discharge on a lead battery illustrates who might
be lacking in research,

top of the line rolls/surrettes are rated at 5000 cycles to 20% depth of discharge iirc, certainly they will go to 3300 cycles
at 50% depth of discharge.

from the info provided by your chinese iron batteries they don't extend over that number of cycles if discharged as deeply as you suggest, this was an eye opener to me, as i would have expected many more cycles that what they advertise.

the charge efficiency an be quite high with the rolls/surrettes using the proper charge regime, not too hard to get over 90% using the
50/80 charge regime.

so here you have an iron battery with an expected lifespan as measured in cycles of less than 3000, that costs 4x as much, and is only about 60-65% efficient, vs a quality lead acid battery that exceeds the cycle count, costs 1/4 and can attain 90% efficiency?

one is available here in north america from a variety of suppliers, is well understood, fits the need and the equipment that run off of it, and has a solid history of being a good battery, vs one that has no real support or supplier presence, is not as well understood, while maybe fitting the need has no equipment that works will with it?

what am i missing here?

do an analysis and work out the true depreciation or cost per kw/hour over the batteries expected lifespan, i think you will find
that the iron battery had better last well over 100 years with no user intervention, no loss of capacity, and certainly no failures to just
about break even.

maybe you can explain this to me?

bob g

[isoutar]

Don't  forget (advertisment deleted)

I will not be back to the forum ...

Oh, boo hoo, how ever will we survive??

Advertisement deleted? ... why would you avoid the most important battery conference in North America ... you might learn something.

The "boo hoo" is precisely why it is not worth visting the forum again.     You will be pleased to know that I have asked for my membership to be terminated.   This may be a time for celebration for those opposed to the use of Nickel Iron cells.   For others I have posted enough links that the answers can be found by anyone on the forum.   My job is done.

Please delete my membership and login information.    I have many other forums that I participate in currently.

Ian Soutar

[rossw]

Don't  forget (advertisment deleted)

I will not be back to the forum ...

Oh, boo hoo, how ever will we survive??

Advertisement deleted? ... why would you avoid the most important battery conference in North America ... you might learn something.

Perhaps because I'm on the other side of the world and already been to more than my share of talkfests?

 This may be a time for celebration for those opposed to the use of Nickel Iron cells.

Oh, for (insert deitiy of choice here) sakes!!!  We're NOT opposed to the use of NiFe cells you IDIOT.

My job is done.

<personal opinion>goodbye and good riddance!</opinion>

[WindriderNM]

If some of us put our heads together we could probably design and make our own for a fraction of the cost.

[bob g]

lets recap

iron batteries are better than sliced bread

why are they so good?

because they are better than sliced bread, haven't you done your research?

yes i have done my research, but again why are they so good?

blah, blah, blah...


darn it sure seems really hard to have a civil discussion and make any headway, when there is no documentation.


and i (we) are supposed to go to some conference?  what on earth for? so i can sit trapped as a captive audience, while
i get more of the same?

"iron batteries are better than sliced bread" 

like i want to spend hard earned money traveling and paying for the privilege to have more of these anecdotal, unsupported, undocumented, claims driven into my head?  with no reasoned analysis available?

obviously we were right all along, this Ian fellow is an owner of iron batteries and as such can never be expected to say anything
that might make him look like he made a mistake in buying them.

that is the problem with anecdotal evidence in a nutshell.

whats really rich is when pressed for something more than "i said so" he takes his ball and goes home?

what a waste of everyone's time

bob g

[Bruce S]

ALL , I may get into trouble for this , but I have had enough of his adverts. I have removed in his posts the adverts to the "other" person's website.

It may be a over step on my part, but enough is enough.
He's done the very same thing on no less than 2 other sustainable website that I peruse from time to time.

My sincerest apologies to TomW, Kurt and the owners if I have overstepped my bounds.

Bruce S

[bob g]

fwiw

my vote is in support of BruceS' action

this "Character" (Ian) reall wasn't up to having to provide support for his assertions, so in my opinion
he and his posts probably do more harm than good.

this is precisely why i don't read tabloids, because if you let undocumented crap into your head, even if you
know it is false/flawed/or just plain a lie, some of it will inadvertently stick. then later somewhere down the road
you will find yourself quoting from or using this flawed/BS in some manner because you forgot the source.

someone stated that with incredible assertions comes the calls for incredible proof (paraphrasing here), and i think that
is spot on.

attaching a product to the success of a former product does not make the product good, no matter if it uses the same technology or not.

anyway i too had hoped that there would have been a little more meat on the bone, but in the end sadly it appears Ian was just another koolaid drinker that couldn't provide reasoned support for his claims.

at the end of the day there is a reason that the edison iron battery ceased manufacture, my bet is those that had the money to buy them simply did the math/analysis and they just didn't pencil out even if they lasted 20, 30 or more years.

sometimes too i wonder if we don't elevate guys like edison to some godlike entity, when the reality was something far less?

another thing i try to keep in mind at least for myself is this

there is more interest now in battery technology than perhaps at any other time in history, with the advent of handheld devises, laptops, EV, and AE/RE, along with industrial applications, there is a huge desire to come up with a better battery. the last thing i would want to do, or advise anyone to do is make an enormous investment in iron batteries along with inverters and chargers optimized to work with them, when it might well be a super battery is just around the corner.

i could just see me invest 20grand to get setup for iron battery technology, and next year a new battery technology arrives that works with my existing inverter/charger system that is as good or better at half the cost.

not too many people want to drive a model T down the interstate even if it is a new one, sort of paying massive amounts of money for a betamax system, 6 months before they were displaced by vhs

i am not sure if it was the message that bothered me so much, or how it was delivered, or if it was the messenger that i didn't like.

bob g
edit:  it took me a couple minutes to realize it was a combination of all three!

[Bruce S]

Dear ALL;
   If other than "The Author" is not opposed, I'd like to request a lock to this thread.
No need to continue this thread.

Admins can override if they wish. I just don't want any further adverts inserted to this one.
Since this section can be seen in Google and Bing searches I'd like to preserve this forums high standards and not let  "The Author" continue his posting of these "other" links.

Bruce S

[TomW]

Dear ALL;
   If other than "The Author" is not opposed, I'm going to lock this thread.
No need to continue this thread.

Admins can override if they wish. I just don't want any further adverts inserted to this one.
Since this section can be seen in Google and Bing searches I'd like to preserve this forums high standards and not let  "The Author" continue his posting of these "other" links.

Bruce S

Bruce;

Your Call.

Tom