Author Topic: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW  (Read 8072 times)

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Jon Miller

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Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« on: December 26, 2010, 05:39:09 PM »
Hello all,

I have just purcahsed a second-hand turbine from a local chap who is off grid and now has a Proven 2.5kW wind turbine.

I have purchased a Unitron 3kW, 240 volt, three phase, radail flux, vertical furl for direct space heating application.

http://www.unitronenergy.com/UE_33_3.3kw.html



The turbine fell off a tower into a tree and the blades, carbon fibre composite, sufered a bit of damage but overal look ok.

I will put a picture of the turbine itself up shortly.

Plans for this turbine are to use a PIC bassed 10 stage programble controler, RPM Vs % load of Pulse Width, to a 3kW 240 volt immersion copuled into a small hot water tank running in serries in the wet central heating system.

Claimed 4m/s average with K=2 yield is 270kWh a month ~ 3240kWh a year, should offset £130 of oil a year.  Or 600kG of logs a year ish.

Will update as work progresses this year.

If anyone has had any expereince with Unitron turbines I would be intrested to here what you think of them.

Regads

Jonathan


Jon Miller

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2011, 03:45:49 PM »
Hi all,

I have a picture of the turbine:



When I purchased the turbine the seller offered the original high voltage to 48 volt dc convertor and regulator, this device uses a DC to DC buck convertor to bring the high voltage down.  The DC to DC convertor uses a MPPT to up the yield of the machine, unitron supplied the MPPT lookup table (see below).  I decided not to purchase the high voltage to 48 volt DC controller as I wanted the machine for heating loads.

After contacting Unitron I got the following information from them:


Unloaded and loaded generator voltage (UE33)

2102-0

MPPT table for the original DC to DC controller

2103-1

Power curve

2104-2



I got a chap to build me a PIC based 10 stage RPM Vs. PWM by % for load control of a heating element for space heating.

All 10 stages of the PIC controller can be set by the controller allowing for me to program in the power curve of the turbine and change it as needed.

The contorler has a RS232 connection with data streamed every five seconds.




This is as far as I have got with it all.

Jobs to do include making a brake for the machine, building a tower and getting planning permission.

I need to get my head around a brake design if anyone has any ideas?  There are a set of slip rings and bruses behind the silver plate, I need to check to see if there is a hole down the centre of this for a cable.  I am thinking that either a turn buckle? device or if there is no hole in the middle of the yaw sharft:



Any thoughts or questions welcomed.

Thanks

Jonathan
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 04:09:59 PM by Jon Miller »


willib

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2011, 10:32:07 AM »
I too had the idea to use a bicycle brake design shown in your post.
one can spin the handle bars around 360 degrees , and apply the brake whenever its convenient.
so as the mill yaws around you could apply the brake even as it is pivoting.
Carpe Ventum (Seize the Wind)

gsw999

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2011, 06:12:12 AM »
crikey , that chap sure knows what he is doing!!!

Jon Miller

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2012, 08:01:06 PM »
Well I think it's about time I updated this project. - UK based one here.

This is one for the parents, they are currently very happy with 2.5kW of grid tied PV that they get a very high payment for through the UK FIT system.

My farther is happy to work on this project and wait until things come around that we can get cheap.  With that in mind, I have picked up an Aurora Power One PVI 3.6 Wind Turbine inverter and one of their '4000' interfaces for a good price.  I will be moving away from the PWM heating device in favour of making high quality grid electricity.  In time my parents will have a small air source heat pump, 7kWth, running in a bi mode setup along with their current oil boiler.  Also, new devices have come onto the UK market that diverts any exported power to a heat dump at mains voltage.  Device such as the Immersun http://www.immersun.co.uk/ can be had for £360 over here, and will divert any spare, so no need to be anal about keeping an eye on the production and the household consumption.

The last real part of this project is the tower, plans are still to use a telegraph pole guyed in six places - not very high, maybe 7m, to keep the ease of maintainance down as well as the initial build.

The PV is close to the same location as the turbine is planned and we already have a 110mm conduit running out to the field from the house, about 100m, so we just need some more cable there.

So all coming along very slowly, but we are getting there.

Cheers

Jon


SparWeb

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2012, 10:53:30 PM »
Thanks for the update Jon,
I didn't actually see the first posting - probably due to it being around christmas time then.

You said the kit fell off its tower in the OP.  But you didn't mention if you have examined the blades more thoroughly since buying it.  That's rather worrying - even if they appear to have survived how can you know there aren't microscopic cracks that won't grow when in service?  I can suggest a few inspection techniques you might want to try, if you haven't already done so.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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Jon Miller

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2012, 06:31:40 AM »
Yes, this is a good point.

If you can suggest I will have a look over in time.

I thought at worst I would have to make a wooden set, not the end of the world.

Thanks

Jon


sean_ork

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2012, 08:17:18 AM »


........ and getting planning permission.


for a second hand, untested, potentially damaged mill - perhaps using home made blades, all mounted on a secondhand telegraph pole ?

I suppose you'll also be wanting to claim the FIT as well  ;)

DamonHD

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2012, 09:52:32 AM »
No FiT will be payable AFAIK on anything other than new MCS-approved kit by MCS-approved installers.

Rgds

Damon
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Jon Miller

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2012, 01:22:04 PM »


........ and getting planning permission.


for a second hand, untested, potentially damaged mill - perhaps using home made blades, all mounted on a secondhand telegraph pole ?

I suppose you'll also be wanting to claim the FIT as well  ;)

I wont bite on this one to hard, I know what I am up to and there is no one around for me to worry about the maching causing harm except my pocket!  :P

I worry more about the clapped out old cars with 12 months 'MOTs' on them.

I would love to claim the FITS but I know I cant, I install turbines for a job - up to 15kW, and this is why we are waiting for the items to come up at the correct prices to make the project stand up on savings alone.  Which I think is fairer anyway.

My parents wernt greddy with the FIT for their solar systems, they only have 2.5kW and could have put in more!

All said and done it should be a nice setup making a good dent in electricity and heating demand for them.

Cheers

Jon



sean_ork

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2012, 01:43:19 PM »


I wont bite on this one to hard, I know what I am up to and there is no one around for me to worry about the maching causing harm except my pocket!  :P



it wasn't intended to make you bite, I assume that if you know what you are doing then applying for planning permission for such a mill is a complete waste of time and money - you just won't get planning permission

and as you apparently have no one around, why would you even want to apply for permission ?

there's been a couple of those machines installed up here a while back - neither lasted more than 8 months - there's a good few more unhappy purchasers over in NI who are rather more vocal with their concerns


Jon Miller

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2012, 02:11:37 PM »
Sorry, ive just come off another forum with a trolled thread :@

Yeah, I wont waste my time with planning now.

The machine is not the best, this I can see, I want to put a mechanical brake on, this will help and stop it from running in strong winds here and again, this is the idea with the 7m tower.  What problems have people had?

I was not convinced by the controller that would have come with the turbine from new, for off grid use.  Unitron have a grid tie controller but I will be using the Aurora unit as these are better and can be programmed to some extent.  Unitron have been very helpful with my questions and this is a good sign.

I do need to have a look at the blades and the shock absorber on the furl mechanisim.

cheers

Jon




sean_ork

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2012, 02:24:55 PM »
What problems have people had?



cracked blades, stator impacting on housing, water ingress, excessive wear on bearing faces - there appears to be no single point of failure, just a series of weaknesses often found in mills of it's ilk


fabricator

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2012, 02:51:30 PM »
I don't know why you would want a mechanical brake if it's three phase, just shorting the phases should be plenty good.
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SparWeb

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2012, 07:50:48 PM »
Hello Jon,

Since you are interested, I'll start you on the dead-simple tap test.  This assumes that the blades are made with carbon fiber or fiberglass that was laminated on a foam or wood core.  I can't be certain, but the website of Unitron leads me to believe the blades are made that way. 

All you need is a big heavy coin, the heavier the better.  I think the UK has some big coins in circulation like the 2p coin, which is good enough.  Lay each blade flat on a table, and tap-tap-tap on the blade, moving along slowly so that you tap every centimeter or so.  Tap along the blade chord starting at one end, then come back across the chord one cm over, and repeat until you've tapped across the whole blade.

If the bonding of the carbon-fiber skin to the inner core is intact, then all of your taps will sound rather similar:  sharp clear "tak"

If your tapping crosses an area where the skin has delaminated from the core, then the sound gets absorbed into the empty space between core and skin, the sounds becomes a duller "thuk"

Repeat for each blade, top and bottom.  Some internal structure inside the blade will become apparent, such as spars, ribs, or joints made during manufacture, so not all changes in sounds indicate a problem.

It will be obvious, I guarantee you, so don't worry about calibrating your ears before starting.  If you find any of these delaminated pockets, then start recording things critically.  Make a diagram of the blade, and when you find a delaminated zone, sketch it on your diagram.  Measure the center of the zone on the blade and mark that on the diagram.  Make a separate diagram for each blade top and bottom and mark any delaminations you find, showing how big they are and what the location of the zone is.

I've attached a picture of an Exmork exploded blade that didn't survive a storm (save that story for another day).  Just to give you an idea of the simple structure inside these types of blades.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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fabricator

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2012, 08:10:33 PM »
One test to check for carbon fiber delamination is to clamp the root in a vise and grab the tip and twist, if it twists easily and makes a squeaking noise you definitely have delamination of the fibers.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Flux

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2012, 04:53:33 AM »

"I don't know why you would want a mechanical brake if it's three phase, just shorting the phases should be plenty good."

That machine looks to be derived from a Whisper. My guess is that it will reactance limit and run away with a short circuit brake.

Flux

Jon Miller

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2012, 05:47:27 AM »

"I don't know why you would want a mechanical brake if it's three phase, just shorting the phases should be plenty good."

That machine looks to be derived from a Whisper. My guess is that it will reactance limit and run away with a short circuit brake.

Flux

Its a radial flux machine, all turbines should have mechnical brakes IMO, ive shorted a10kW machines and it didnt stop.


Jon Miller

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2012, 05:50:00 AM »
SparWeb,

Thanks for that, it all makes sense, as does the twisting of the blade.  I am not awith the machine at the momment so this part will have to wait for now, ill have a chat with my dad and see if he can get around to this.

Are there any means of fixing or is it a throw away and start again job?

It really wouldnt be the end of the world if we had to make some blades, we have most of the kit.

Cheers

Jon


SparWeb

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Re: Recent wind turbine purchase - 3kW
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2012, 02:42:11 PM »
Jon,
Fabricator beat me to it: I was saving the flex test for later.  Twisting or bending will reveal some damage in various ways, but it helps to know where to look, otherwise you are hunting blindly.  Better to have a tap-test map of suspected bad spots, then do the bending test later to be more focused when examining the bad spots under load.  With a straightedge you may find wrinkles come up - but let's cross that bridge when we get to it!
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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