Gas driven hydro turbine

[DaS Energy]

For some time hydro turbines have been with us,  as to have steam and gas turbines.

Hydro turbines commonly are located on river or stream which have either been damed or the water fall over a cliff.

Steam and gas turbines are more locatable yet harder to make than a hydro turbine.

However in what may be a first is using steam or gas to to drive a hydro turbine has some uniquie features.

First is any forn of liquid that will boil off into a gas to provide the pressure force of liquid passing through a hydro turbine.

Second its the only turbine to capture equal and opposite force to drive a second turbine at the same force of the first one without a second input of energy.

This is acheived by having a gas force arriven by boiling liquid such as Co2 for its tremendous pressure to little heat and ideal behaviour of flashing into Dry -Ice to provide cooling to the hot gas return condensating into liquid.

Steam turbines need water heated to +550* Celsius to provide 175 bar pressure which is converted into 350 megawatts.

Carbon Dioxide liquid when heated to +100* Celsius provides 10,000 bar pressure which converts into 20,000 megawatts.

Other gases in liquid state when heated provide less and more pressure than Steam or Co2.

To save on need to develop a gas turbine specific to each form of gas it was thought best just to use the pressure of any gas .

The beast of gasses dont need heat from Carbon producing fires to develop pressure equal to or over and above Steam.

The attached have been released in Open Technology free to copy so others may copy without cost and help limit Carbon release.

[XeonPony]

but then factor in the energy needed to condense the cardon dioxide again

[DaS Energy]

Hello XeonPony,

No energy losses occur for cooling.

Cooling Co2 gas from +100*C down to +32*C .

Ambient cooling may be employed or assisted cooling may be used.

Co2 somewhat an odd gas that in part forms Dry-Ice at high pressure gas.

The Dry Ice formation occurrence may be used in assistance cooling the hot gas back to lower temperature.

[XeonPony]

CO2 is used often in industrial refrigeration espessialy in cacsade systems. I do not think the idea is to viable CO2 is a moderatly difficult gas to use in a closed cycle system the dry ice tends to plug things and is a strong material that can physicaly damage rotating blade assemblies.

you need to put in a larg amount of energy to compress and cool the gas just to turn around and add energy to boil it, you need a prime mover to pump this energy flow seems to me it is counter productive. That and CO2 is not a very dense gas compared to most.

This is the very reason we came up with wind, solar, hydro, petrol, LPG and so on.

[DaS Energy]

Hello XeonPony,

Not much you can teach me about Co2. Used in a lot more places than you note.

If it wont work for you then dont build it.

[ETech]

DaS Energy,

 If you are brainstorming then you should welcome others to poke holes in your proposal.

Those holes in you design need to be fixed before you build anything, unless you wish to spend a extra money on ttrial and error.

I'm in engineering, every design is reviewed by the other members of our team to find the weak spots in the design.

This is NOT to make someone feel bad, but to produce a reliable, well functioning product.

If anyone points out a weak spot in you creativity, they are trying to save you some time and  / or Money.

Etech

[DaS Energy]

Hello ETech,

Didn't mean to sound harsh.

People with questions or queeries are fine, however before one sets out telling why things wont work perhaps they should enquire as to how their wont work have been overcome.

[ETech]

Yes, I the first questiion I'd ask if I was told my design wouldn't work is: why!

Teach me why and how it the design has problems or won't work.

There is nothing better that free education on a subject you interested in!!!

Have a good day, I have to run....

[Rover]

DaS,


I've read your numerous topics on the subject , and honestly it is probably beyond my understanding . However, typically post in here are usually questions , unless in the Diaries forum (and a few others). So I'm asking you , what kind of response are you looking for, do you have a question?, are you presenting an idea that you want input for? , what kind of input? do you need help with your idea?, are you just posting to get the idea out there? Do you want it evaluated? are you looking for venture capitalist to back you?

honesytly, I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't know why you have posted... you haven't told us.

[DaS Energy]

Hello Rover,

Thank you for your help.

I post all in OpenTechnology free to copy, as I beleive we need to reduce Carbon emmissions and there are many who want to keep things as they are, so by my doing the initial development and prooving other means work, gives those wanting to a helping hand.

It also strips away the oft commentary we cant do it any other way, any other way will cost so much more money to run etc etc.

If nothing else it denies our beleif that the only way it can be done is by relying upon technology so old it came with Stevens steam engine.

Always hoping another may supply a more suited gas or help with all the science data people want.

[XeonPony]

I am trained in refrigeration where it involves gas compression, liquification and expansion, well lets say that is the core of my feild.  I would very much enjoy making a succesfull system as it would be great. I would personaly use R-134a or another dense gas.

[hydrosun]

My only question is why this is in the hydro power catagory. It has nothing to do with water turbines. It sound more like a stirling engine.
Chris

[DaS Energy]

Hello XeonPony

I am here to help no charge.  R774-A is what I have been playing around with.

I chose Co2 because when Supercritical it behaves like a liquid hence the hydro turbine.

Havent taken it up to +100*C  10,000 bar yet though.

Co2 other habit of forming Dryi-Ice under high pressure provides a cooling block -40*C.

Co2 at lower pressure produces a bubble drive on CO2 scale.pdf (60.38 kB - downloaded 346 times.)to water, but needs cooling again by means other than Dry-Ice.

[DaS Energy]

Hello hydrosun,

You are correct it can be used as a hot air engine, however there remains its hydro turbines.

Its actions remain that of a hydro turbine however it does away with the need for headwaters.

Peter

[TomW]

Das

;Again; this probably belongs in Diaries.

Tom

[DaS Energy]

Hello Tom,

Forum is no longer of interest to me. Wipe the lot please.

I will make no further response.

[Bruce S]

Hello Tom,

Forum is no longer of interest to me. Wipe the lot please.

I will make no further response.

How unfortunate you will no longer be posting here.
You've been posting this type of conceptual  information on the web since 2005.

IF you have pictures of builds; please do come back and enlighten us so we can further understand where you are going with this.
No one tried to be little you or your ideas only that this style should be in the diary section to help preserve what you are trying to explain.
No wiping the lot, open forums become forever information as you should know and understand within these days of the internet.

Cheers;
Bruce S