Author Topic: Windtronics turbine.  (Read 8053 times)

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sbotsford

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Windtronics turbine.
« on: January 07, 2011, 02:56:02 PM »

This one is a really odd duck of a windmill, and worthy of a look and discussion.

1.  It's multi-blade.

2.  It has no gearbox.

3.  Cut in speed of 0.5 m/s (1.1 mph) Cut out of 17 m/s (37 mph)

4.  The tips are shrouded, with magnets in the tips and the coils in the shroud.

Looking at the power curve data, then running it on a class 4 site about half the kwhr it makes per year are in winds below 10 mph.

Potential downsides.

It uses a 'smart controller' box.  Contents unknown.

It's small -- only 6 feet in diameter.  1500 w at 15m/s

Now I'm not sure how you would scale this up.  As the turbine gets bigger, keeping the tips from flexing enough to hit the shroud becomes an issue.

The following thoughts occur to me:

1.  I'm intrigued by this machine as it seems to work well on what should be considered poor sites. 


2.  A multiblade machine has higher torque, but less speed.  I suspect that the optimum tsr for a multiblade is a lot lower.  (First guess:  Optimum tip speed ratio x number of blades = constant)  I think this is what allows it to produce power (5 watts) at 0.5 m/s

3.  To scale this up perhaps the magnets don't need to be on the tips, but part way out.  This puts the magnets where the blade is still very stiff.

Anyway, take a look and tell me what you think.

Bruce S

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2011, 04:02:59 PM »
At first glance it reminded me of the bicycle 'mills that have been around even on this forum for many years.
The cut-in speed is a mind re-direct, for lack of a better word. :P
True it will begin spinning at 1/2mph, but looking at their graph and number it will still not start doing any real work until it is over 5mph.
The max output shown on their graph and flyer is a steady state of 31mph. Pretty big wind !!
I imagine they have a wave-style winding much like what Windstuff Ed has shown both here and over on his website.
The grearbox note is another re-direct, not too many DIY axial turbine are gearbox any longer, tho still very much around. They are direct-connect. The recycled printer motor and such will be the exception to this, but the Dan's and scourig's books show direct connect.

Hope this helps;
Bruce S

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Janne

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2011, 04:15:56 PM »
The cut in at 0.5m/s is just a big joke. Whopping 82.55mW available for that rotor with efficiency of 0.4... http://tinyurl.com/2e6wbff
Nothing's as easy as drilling a hole in the wrong place

Bruce S

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2011, 04:58:49 PM »
The cut in at 0.5m/s is just a big joke. Whopping 82.55mW available for that rotor with efficiency of 0.4... http://tinyurl.com/2e6wbff
BUT it is pretty  ;D
The graph is built nice and does look like they are at least up front on the graph about output (haven't run the swept area power math yet)
BUT the glossy takes this away.

I stopped when I saw the +6Gs :P

Cheers
Bruce S
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zoran

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2018, 10:22:02 AM »
What happened to the Windtronics turbine? Their site isn't there anymore, have they stopped producing it?

MattM

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2018, 01:25:33 PM »
In May of 2013 the company ended.  I believe they were mired in a heap of litigation.

zoran

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2018, 02:03:42 PM »
For what reasons did the company end? What exactly do you mean when you say "litigation"? Do you mean the product did not deliver what it promised?

Mary B

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2018, 06:35:28 PM »
http://www.wind-works.org/cms/index.php?id=663

What happened to the Windtronics turbine? Their site isn't there anymore, have they stopped producing it?

zoran

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2018, 06:54:31 PM »
Thanks Mary but i can't understand much from that web page due to my inadequate english... could you make me a summary with simple words?

MattM

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2018, 11:43:58 PM »
The turbine marketing was fraud.  Untrue.  Lies.  Phoney baloney.  Scam.

zoran

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2018, 04:09:19 AM »
But it was announced in Popular Mechanics as one of the most innovative products of 2009... no, wasn't it?

MattM

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2018, 07:33:05 AM »
All fraud begins with a good sales pitch.

zoran

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2018, 07:44:38 AM »
I gotta have more proof on this matter, weather it was fraud or something else.
Matt how do you base your "verdict" what it was fraud? Has anyone else read the same?

kitestrings

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2018, 02:00:27 PM »
I would agree Bruce that the min. windspeed/cut-in is worthless - suggesting that there is more to be had than there really is - and 31, or 33.5 mph is an unrealistic speed to be considering for any sort of rating.   This is about the point where your focus shift to just holding things together.

I've found this to be a pretty good sanity check on things:

https://www.ndsu.edu/pubweb/~klemen/Perfect_Turbine.htm

Mary B

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2018, 06:50:39 PM »
Basic english? It was a fraud and never worked.

Thanks Mary but i can't understand much from that web page due to my inadequate english... could you make me a summary with simple words?

zoran

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2018, 07:03:33 PM »
Basic english? It was a fraud and never worked.
It never worked in doing what? Im only asking because we gotta know what we should expect of that kind of generator. If one was expecting it to produce the same amount of power as a blade turbine, then it surely wouldn't work like that, simply because its philosophy was different.
From what i understand, its philosophy was to work 24/7 with the least amount of wind. Running 24/7 would eventually select the power needed.
Do you catch my drift?  ;)

jenkinswt

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2018, 08:10:31 PM »
24/7 would be great but there's simply not alot of power in very low winds. There's a nice chart on the otherpower.com website on the truth about wind or something like that and it shows a rough idea of the power of different swept areas and wind speed. It's pretty useful to determine what's realistic. I don't know much about the windtronics turbine but I don't have much faith in most of the small turbines advertised.

Did you find one your interested in purchasing? Otherwise if their no longer in business I don't see why it matters unless your wanting to duplicate the design or something. When it comes to wind or anything else it's useful to look what has worked for years. People have already experimented at their expense for along time and not much has changed in awhile but "New innovations" pop up from time to time to try and make a quick buck.

electrondady1

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2018, 08:21:17 AM »
i good design has minimal parts and procedures.
i think the stator / fan shroud would be an expensive item to make.
 your could get a very fast crossing speed with the mags out on the blade tips but still your alternator is 6 ft. in dia .

zoran

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2018, 08:58:45 AM »
24/7 would be great but there's simply not a lot of power in very low winds.
Thats the point, it is collecting the slightest power from the lowest winds, as it could be collecting power 24/7 since it will always be turning!

Bruce S

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2018, 09:51:25 AM »
I gotta have more proof on this matter, weather it was fraud or something else.
Matt how do you base your "verdict" what it was fraud? Has anyone else read the same?
BEGIN GM MODE
Zoran;
You are currently asking people here who have built windmills and have proven that they know what they are doing.
I would request that instead of tasking them to prove their stance is that you do your do diligence and do the research yourself.

END GM MODE

We do not yet know the level of your abilities therefore it would be prudent of you to go do the research and come back here with your findings

Bruce S
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zoran

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2018, 03:01:24 PM »
Im not accusing anyone of the respected users, im only trying to shred some light to "why has Wintronics shutdown"
Im trying to really find the reason, replies like "Untrue" "Lies"  "Phoney baloney"  "Scam" without some explanation aren't just good enough for me, would it be good enough for you?

I wish there was someone that actually bought Windtronics turbine and could state first hand what he actually experienced.  ;-)

Mary B

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2018, 06:07:32 PM »
I gave you a link, use Google Translate to read them!

hiker

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2018, 07:11:35 PM »
Bankrupt....
WILD in ALASKA

zoran

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2018, 01:53:01 AM »
Bankrupt? Now that is a new explanation :-)

dbcollen

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2018, 11:57:34 AM »
 "Thats the point, it is collecting the slightest power from the lowest winds, as it could be collecting power 24/7 since it will always be turning!"

Collecting nothing continuously 24/7 still gets you nothing at the end.

kitestrings

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2018, 02:41:24 PM »
This is the only one I've ever actually seen.  I don't think it is still up, but you may be able to find someone from the article to shed some light on it.  I noticed at least one of the responses is from someone else who bought one.  They don't sound happy.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/burlington-city-planners-object-to-restaurants-wind-turbine/Content?oid=2177043

Good luck, but don't be surprised at what you find.  IMO this has a predictable outcome.

~ks

JW

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2018, 03:31:46 PM »
To quote Flux "just cause its spinning don't mean its making power"

clockmanFRA

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2018, 02:07:56 AM »
Quality issues.

This one was on test and for sale from a UK, England, and retailer of RE products. GTI connected to the main utilities grid.

I called in every 6 months or so to pick PV rails/clamps up, as it was on my travel route, and it saves postage.

Ran well for the first 6 months, but output down on what the manufactures said.

After a year taken down from this mounting pole and put on the roof of the main 3 storey building. Maintenance issues.

2 years later, I called for some more RE stuff and said, "crikey what's up with that", "It fell apart " said the company spokesman, “ and we had to disconnect from the utilities grid not long after it went up”.
 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 02:14:02 AM by clockmanFRA »
Everything is possible, just give me time.

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3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

electrondady1

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2018, 08:16:17 AM »
good looking pole

Bruce S

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2018, 09:25:04 AM »
Im not accusing anyone of the respected users, im only trying to shred some light to "why has Wintronics shutdown"
Im trying to really find the reason, replies like "Untrue" "Lies"  "Phoney baloney"  "Scam" without some explanation aren't just good enough for me, would it be good enough for you?

If it was coming from people who'd been on a forum for as long as the people responding? YES , I would
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zoran

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2018, 10:58:24 AM »
Collecting nothing continuously 24/7 still gets you nothing at the end.
Why do you say this? Do you know this from personal experience?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 04:21:12 PM by zoran »

dbcollen

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2018, 11:11:09 AM »
Collecting nothing continuously 24/7 still gets you nothing at the end.
Why do you say this? Do you know this from personal experience?
Yes I do know this from personal experience, I have been collecting nothing for years and it has still added up to nothing. I even tried using the new math and disappointingly still came up with nothing.

electrondady1

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Re: Windtronics turbine.
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2018, 09:24:25 AM »
no one liked that windronic design but this kind of mill has been popular for a very long time.