Author Topic: Stub wasn't stubby enough and bent  (Read 5778 times)

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Boss

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Stub wasn't stubby enough and bent
« on: April 02, 2011, 12:03:44 PM »
Good Morning
Yesterday I pulled our wind turbine down all by myself, really not as difficult or dangerous as I feared. Below you can see the red Blazer in the background. It is tied to the special cable we have on the gin pole. Sort of accidentally I left just enough slack in the cable that enabled me to gently tug on the rope attached to the top of the turbine, easing it over the edge of the pivot point, where it hung until I hopped back in the Blazer and moved it forward, letting the tower very slowly down. 

Turbine-stub-bent. When I looked up at the turbine a couple weeks ago, it appeared that the top pipe called a stub, was too small in diameter, making it the weak link in the design. Yes, it was the weak link, but it wasn't too small. The top pipe (red) is two inch in diameter. The breakdown in the system came about because we added six inches to the blades, thus creating too great of a wind swept area for the tower and turbine housing designs.  I'll post more information on the relationship between wind swept area and turbine offset (distance generator is away from tower for proper furling) The bottom line is that the turbine did not furl quickly enough during last months high winds and the extra wind swept area let too much force push on the top of the tower, bending the two inch pipe stub, which I should never have designed to be so long to begin with. As the name implies, the pipe stub is supposed to be stubby. I was trying to add extra height to the two twenty foot sections of tower we had lying around. 

Turbine-stub-bent- seeing the bend up close is an eye opener. The power in the the wind is amazing. I put all my considerable weight on the top of the tower and it did not even begin to unbend this pipe. Unfortunately, the red pipe is tied in with the upper guy cables, so complete disassembly will be necessary to pull the turbine stub out of the tower for a proper rebuild, and perhaps redesign.

Turbine-stub-bent

Then, while inspecting the turbine itself I found these cracks in the stator. If you remember, the stator was a project Jackson, Henry and I performed on our kitchen table. Potting the coils, this is termed. It means after winding the copper into 9 coils using the super duper coil winder Kevin and I made at Luna shortly after we went to the week-long workshop at OtherPower in Colorado, they are very carefully soldered together and  laid-out precisely in a mold, sandwiched with fiberglass.  Polyester resin is poured into the mold, creating the plastic stationary part of our alternator.  Anyway, it all went wrong, we couldn't get the stator out of the mold, and had to laboriously chip away the wooden mold.

The episode convinced me that we needed a workshop. and for the next year with the help of family and many friends our homemade wind turbine project was put on hold while we indeed build a wonderful shop. Once I had a place to work, I dug around in our backyard and found the stator still entombed in the mold, thrown down in disrespect I might add. Jackson, and Kevin now back on the project and I cleaned the funky looking stator and added a couple layers of polyester resin, declaring the stator "Close enough."

Well close enough rarely is just that, and it looks like the stator cracked in the places where we patched it a year later.

In summary, and I know what you're thinking, "About damn time."
These issues ought to be dragging my mood into the dirt. I'm fine. I don't have a complete plan in my head yet, but that's okay, I know Austin, Amelia and Kevin are finished for the season in Taos, and they'll help me figure our what to do. My life is getting back to normal, after my father's death last month. The turbine will need a little more effort that bending the pipe straight, but I know that thought was naive.
Maybe this is the push I needed to build a better turbine.
–
Brian Rodgers
Brian Rodgers
My sustainable lifestyle site http://outfitnm.com no ads, not selling anything either

SparWeb

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Re: Stub wasn't stubby enough and bent
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2011, 06:27:59 PM »
Sorry to see it.  It can take a while before it fades into the past and you can laugh about it.
If the rest of the tower is okay (I hope) then at least that is just one part that can be removed and repaired.
Once the drag wears off, I'm sure you'll be looking forward to make a new stator "better than before".
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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Volvo farmer

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Re: Stub wasn't stubby enough and bent
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2011, 09:03:13 AM »
How tall was that stub? And how big are those blades? Mine should be about 5 feet (10 foot blades), but I added a foot thinking I might get a 12 footer up there some day.  It's a little disconcerting to go stand under the tower in 25 mph gusts and watch that stub flex above the guys, mine hasn't bent though. Seeing what I have seen, no way would I put a 12 footer on my tower.

Less bark, more wag.

Boss

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Re: Stub wasn't stubby enough and bent
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2011, 11:44:52 AM »
Hey thanks guys
The top pipe is 2 inch diameter, about ten feet long (it came out of the scrap pile like most of the parts) with square to round pipe adapters made from 1/2" steel plate, welded into the middle and bottom of the pipe. Lemme see if I can find the image ...

This piece of the design seemed to hold up well. Welding this adapter to the pipe and sliding the pipe inside the square 3"tube dissipated the energy from the turbine to the small diameter and gauge tower.

Yes I watched and worried on many occasions as the increase of 6" to the latest set of blades put extra stress on the stub. The top pipe sticks out of the tower about six feet. The extra Wind Swept Area threw off the turbine dynamics where it was taking too long to furl. We have a new set of blades ready for the CNC router, but logistical dynamics caused that process to go on hiatus for the Winter Sporting months. One thing led to another, and  that's the way she blows. I'm actually happy this is all that happened, I'm usually pretty stubborn about my designs.
Yes I look forward to winding better looking coils than we had at first, I remember doing coils at the OtherPower workshop, theirs were perfect, ours looked pretty lame.  ::)
Let the research begin: stick with 24 volt? Star or Delta? What to make the mold out of this time? Can I find some of the Polyethylene that Dan had? I want to use the CNC router to make the mold... why not, right? 

Funny, but for me counting while spinning a tight coil is like rubbing my head while tapping my stomach, I can do it, but it ain't pretty.     
Brian Rodgers
My sustainable lifestyle site http://outfitnm.com no ads, not selling anything either

Boss

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Re: Stub wasn't stubby enough and bent
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 08:36:12 AM »
I made some progress over the weekend, here's an excerpt from my morning newsletter


Wind-turbine-tower-stub, So yeah, Sunday morning I pulled the top pipe, which is called a stub, off the wind turbine. Pushed the Isuzu Trooper, which Nell is letting me keep as my one project car, out of the shop. I did not do any cleaning on the shop, pretty much just pushed tools and old projects out of me way, and started thinking about how I was going to straighten the big pipe.


Wind-turbine-stub-straightened-inshop, after heating the pipe evenly to cherry red hot once, my plan for pushing down in the middle with the two ends supported when helpers failed to show up in time. I quickly regrouped and placed the anvil under the guy cable bracket with the bend facing up, and heated the bent section again. It bent perfectly, and after one more heating to red hot I had it where I wanted it. I then peened the steel without quenching it. The idea is to move molecules around in the steel without causing the metal to become brittle. I still need to design some kind of reinforcing ribs for the section that bent.

Also we will cut the wooden blades back to five feet so the turbine furls properly, which should keep this level of force off the tower top in the future. As far as the tower stub, that's as far as I went on Sunday. Next we removed the magnet rotor so we could see the damage to the stator.


Wind-turbine-stator-cracked as well as showing signs of overheating. All in all it looks pretty good, considering its history.



Wind-turbine-stator-cracked, the polyvinyl-resin is translucent. A couple of things become apparent: one is the spacing of the coils, we need to make the next stator more precisely. We can see that where the coils are closer that area is discolored more by heating. Second, the casting needs to be perfectly flat and as thin as possible, as this causes the greatest magnetic flux between the two magnet rotors.


Wind-turbine-stator-cracked
 

Wind turbine in shop, I put a wooden disk over the remaining magnet rotor, as these things are seriously powerful and quite dangerous to the unsuspecting passerby. In the back ground you can see the blade set I took down, plus the laminated blade blanks ready for the CNC router.


Coilwinder-inshop2011, we'll be using this device to wind the new coils. I can see where it needs improvement to keep the copper strands in position. In the meantime I'm researching options for matching the alternator output to the batteries and the blades. More on this later. I find it interesting. This time I'll figure out what happens when wire gauge and quantity of turns are varied.
 
I will change out the thin wooden disk on the outside of the winder spool. I'm thinking of going with steel, as the wood bent under pressure of the heavy gauge copper, causing the coils to be thicker than they should have been
Brian Rodgers
My sustainable lifestyle site http://outfitnm.com no ads, not selling anything either

jlt

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Re: Stub wasn't stubby enough and bent
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 09:56:37 AM »
You could make a new bracket for the guy cables. and put it up a couple of feet higher. once the pipe is heated to red hot it lost a lot of the strength. The 10 ft design was a 8ft design in the beginning.It works very well in average winds but it is  very easy To over Power in high winds.Looks like you have  space for a larger gauge wire in your stator. Might help with the heating of the stator.Looks like yours has been pretty hot.

Jason Wilkinson

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Re: Stub wasn't stubby enough and bent
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2011, 11:57:10 AM »
   HI by the look of the "bent portion " of the stub the inside is pretty much corroded, after heating making it weaker you should reinforced it by welding a sleeve or brace over the affected area  (4 pieces of 1x1/2  two feet long ) welded on the 1/2 inch side  90 degrees apart 

    jason

Boss

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BMN YIPPEE JEEP Liberty CRD!
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 08:02:44 AM »

Yesterday before lunch we bought a Jeep Diesel, Wow. 
Jeep Diesel, many more pictures on my site at http://outfitnm.com/diesel-engine-powered-small-vehicles/jeep-liberty-crd
Good Morning
<to the tune of Jimmy Crack Corn> Osama bin Laden got murdered, and I don't care.
Quiet all that noise.
Jackson and I worked in the shop all day yesterday. Starting out and mainly focusing on the welding project on the wind turbine tower stub reinforcing. I believe it is coming out exactly like I wanted. I said to jack, "It isn't perfect, but it certainly is proportional to the system." In a perfect setup, the tower would be 80 feet tall and made of 6,8 or even 10 inch diameter tubing. Referring to the question of whether the blades might in high winds be close to striking the new reinforcing ribs.

Tower-Stub-Reinforcing, I didn't want the ribs to be welded on in long beads. I don't believe they need that much. The idea is to move the fulcrum point slightly closer to the top of the tower, and spread out the force of the wind shear on the turbine. I don't need to explain how a fulcrum works do I? If you've ever placed a lever under a heavy object, you know that a pivot point moved toward the object greatly increases the lifter's effectiveness. This is the opposite of what I am doing here, moving the fulcrum away from the end. For example when the fulcrum is centered in the lever the ratio of force down on one end equals the lift on the other. 

Tower-Stub-Reinforcing Four heavy duty guy cables attach through the holes in the plate at the bottom seen in the above image. Most every other design of this system worked flawlessly. For instance the lower section of the stub which extends down into the 3 inch square tube for 5 feet, with one little square to round  adapter bracket, also used the principle of leverage to spread the force out. The guy cables hold the bottom of the stub bracket. Effectively there is little to no force on the top of the tower. 

Tower-Stub-Reinforcing – Now with this reinforcing the fulcrum is moved up behind the blades. I hope it holds true. I feel good about it, but the wind is a mighty and relentless force.


Jackson-welding-windturbine-tower

Jackson-welding-windturbine-tower

 Stator-Coil-layout-May-2011 While Jackson welded and in between holding reinforcing ribs in place, I worked on the coils.

It seems as though each project front of several are inching forward simultaneously.
We'll need to borrow the remaining $4K for the Jeep, but this is a huge step forward.
The way I see things, is if we can get the turbine up in the next few weeks, I can begin to think about Memorial Day camp out, which so far I have not. The talk among our family now is a,  "very small gathering, a gate crew, nobody allowed in after midnight, and so forth.
Brian Rodgers
My sustainable lifestyle site http://outfitnm.com no ads, not selling anything either

MaxtorD

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Re: Stub wasn't stubby enough and bent
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2011, 02:33:50 PM »
I would like to request you thoughts on that CRD Jeep after you have had it for a while.    How is the power?  Have you tried towing anything with it? 

Thanks,
-MD

Boss

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Re: Stub wasn't stubby enough and bent
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2011, 10:44:09 AM »
I can't wait to tell you how it is. The dealer is driving the Jeep to Albuquerque this Tuesday, he'll drop it off in Vegas for me on Wednesday. The Motori diesel engine is built by Detroit Diesel weirdly now in Italy, don know what happened there, but Detroit diesels are some of the best engines, this four cylinder creates 160 HP and a buttload of torque, after running Isuzu 225t in a Trooper with 85 HP I'm am ready for some juice. It has a tow hitch, and I plan on using it. 
Brian Rodgers
My sustainable lifestyle site http://outfitnm.com no ads, not selling anything either