Author Topic: bates car, sweet as a nut  (Read 12909 times)

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captain nodge

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bates car, sweet as a nut
« on: January 29, 2011, 03:36:39 PM »
http://www.nfb.ca/film/bates_car_sweet_as_a_nut/     typical british inventer, this seems to cover the bio gas as well as human power, well worth a watch

zap

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2011, 04:43:42 PM »
Thanks for posting that... very interesting.  That bike is something else.
Filmed in '74 makes everything all the more amazing.

opo

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2011, 05:56:22 PM »

I want to be like him when I grow up.
http://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=opo Check my apps aFoil and aFoilSim on android market.

captain nodge

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2011, 03:37:08 AM »
amazing character, like his setup for making biogas, only bit that makes me cringe is his driving, i definatly wouldnt wanna be coming the other way on a pushbike, esp his one as like he says once you get going you cant stop, hee hee,

Tritium

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2011, 02:26:54 PM »
Well I bet he isn't around anymore.  :'(  That was 26+ years ago.

Thurmond

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 07:52:48 AM »
Time for new calculator batteries.
36 years ago.
G-
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wooferhound

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 11:56:41 AM »

Tritium

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2011, 03:55:44 PM »
Time for new calculator batteries.
36 years ago.
G-

Rip van Winkle syndrome. I must have missed the last 10 years somehow  ;D

Really though, it was not the calculators fault. My fingers seem to be more and more rebellious. As I get older they don't always do what they are told.  ::)

Thurmond

larryf

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2011, 11:12:23 AM »
After viewing the methane powered car, I wonder how methane would work in a gasoline/cng kitted engine? ???

MagicValleyHPV

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2011, 05:52:49 PM »
Not to criticize, or belittle, but I failed to understand why 'bio' anything should be used as a vehicle fuel. Gasoline engines are typicall 25-28% efficient, diesels are slightly more at 30-34%. Just last night, Honda was touting a "44 MPG" hybrid. Geesh.. I was getting almost 40 MPG with a bone stock, 1963 VW - let's see... that was 48 years ago!!  After nearly 2 decades of feeding wasteful, inefficient IC motors, I think we're loooong over due for an 'upgrade'.   

Bruce S

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2011, 06:18:00 PM »
Not to criticize, or belittle, but I failed to understand why 'bio' anything should be used as a vehicle fuel. Gasoline engines are typicall 25-28% efficient, diesels are slightly more at 30-34%. Just last night, Honda was touting a "44 MPG" hybrid. Geesh.. I was getting almost 40 MPG with a bone stock, 1963 VW - let's see... that was 48 years ago!!  After nearly 2 decades of feeding wasteful, inefficient IC motors, I think we're loooong over due for an 'upgrade'.   
Biggest reason is $$$ the cost of fuel for Dino-D is currently over $4.00/gal here in StL. I can transform WVO into Bio-D for less than $1.00USD sure the MB300D got 34mph on highway and the new car get 36mpg on 87Octane BUT still why pay when you can do it yourself?

Another and much better reason is LESS waste, instead of the WVO going into landfills it can be reused as motor fuel that also lessens the hydro-carbons.
Using fuel for gasoline based cars such as Alky (Methanol or Ethanol) as vapor based fuels such as CNG or LPG also lower the exhaust and most will lengthen the life of your vehicle.
The Gasoline based cars you are speaking about are at best closer to 15% , most of the fuel goes into making heat.
I could go on & on for paragraphs, but will let others chime in too.

Cheers
Bruce S
   
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MagicValleyHPV

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2011, 08:52:35 PM »
Biggest reason is $$$ the cost of fuel for Dino-D is currently over $4.00/gal here in StL. I can transform WVO into Bio-D for less than $1.00USD sure the MB300D got 34mph on highway and the new car get 36mpg on 87Octane BUT still why pay when you can do it yourself?

First;

Perhaps, but I'm not convinced that 'cheap' fuel can be produced for a buck a gallon. I've not attempted it, but I suspect there's costs associated with equipment, chemicals and a source for the base oil. And many city ordnances prohibit such activities, not to mention, that if someone burns down their house in the process, or the neighbors kids are shooting fireworks near your 'stash'... not an insurance company on the planet will come the party. 

Second;

Whenever a 'gasoline' engine is fed a fuel other than what it was designed for, efficiency goes DOWN. I like LPG (propane), but I spent over $500 in raising the compression and installing stellite valve seats just to retain mileage and HP. Likewise, nearly all other fuels will require, at least, some modifications.

Third;

The core idea is reduce the tonnage on our roads, and promote more efficient driving when you genuinely need to travel. A bicycle is a good example. Why?...

Because even if others are leaning on alternative fuels, the cost of filling potholes, police to monitor traffic, ambulances to haul the bodies, and host of other wallet squeezing  necessities, still comes from someone's wallet.   

Bruce S

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2011, 04:59:22 PM »
Biggest reason is $$$ the cost of fuel for Dino-D is currently over $4.00/gal here in StL. I can transform WVO into Bio-D for less than $1.00USD sure the MB300D got 34mph on highway and the new car get 36mpg on 87Octane BUT still why pay when you can do it yourself?

First;

Perhaps, but I'm not convinced that 'cheap' fuel can be produced for a buck a gallon. I've not attempted it, but I suspect there's costs associated with equipment, chemicals and a source for the base oil. And many city ordinances prohibit such activities, not to mention, that if someone burns down their house in the process, or the neighbors kids are shooting fireworks near your 'stash'... not an insurance company on the planet will come the party. 

Second;

Whenever a 'gasoline' engine is fed a fuel other than what it was designed for, efficiency goes DOWN. I like LPG (propane), but I spent over $500 in raising the compression and installing stellite valve seats just to retain mileage and HP. Likewise, nearly all other fuels will require, at least, some modifications.

Third;

The core idea is reduce the tonnage on our roads, and promote more efficient driving when you genuinely need to travel. A bicycle is a good example. Why?...

Because even if others are leaning on alternative fuels, the cost of filling potholes, police to monitor traffic, ambulances to haul the bodies, and host of other wallet squeezing  necessities, still comes from someone's wallet.   

First I don't have anything to prove and nothing to hide; it would be harder to prove me wrong.

I don't put up arbitrary numbers , these are actual numbers right down to the gathering of WVO the mileage of gas it takes to gather it, the methanol it costs, the lye and it's costs. Mine is actually higher than most who do this; since I mix in much lower amounts than people driving diesel powered trucks who gather WVO in 15 to 55 gal drums.
I live in the city, which won't even allow a wind turbine lawn toy without a permit.
I've already done my homework, StL only want the oil stored where it will not cause unwanted critters. They're more worried about people try to make meth Than me trying to save myself a few $$/gal I homeowners insurance and they had no problem understanding what I'm doing, since I showed them my setup away from the house.
 I can certainly give the email address of my insurance lady, she and the Alky people are keenly aware of the fuels I produce at home. Alcohol is due to the Alky I supplement our 1991 Suburban 5.7L V8 with. It with TBI currently gets 18mpg on E85 & 19mpg on E10 on the highway, their need to keep people like me on the up and up not just legal but safe too.

IF people are working with poisons like Methanol, around the house or attached garage, then they are on their own. MUCH too easy to buy a metal shed, put it up away from the house and do this cost saving, or ground saving, or tree saving  or whatever they do that makes them feel good about doing this, even if it does come down the ALMIGHTY $$$  in America we have that right. Other places ... not so much rights...   

This statement I don't fully understand what you are trying to say
 "Because even if others are leaning on alternative fuels, the cost of filling potholes, police to monitor traffic, ambulances to haul the bodies, and host of other wallet squeezing  necessities, still comes from someone's wallet. "
 

Second. NOT true, gasoline engine that are changed over to vapor fuels, when done right, has higher efficiencies, even the green trust people and the like have acknowledged this.
The mods are due to the vehicle engine being built for a one specific fuel, gasoline, even the flex-fuel engines are optimized for gasoline, the computer tells the injectors to stay open longer.
Built for lets say Methanol are already high-compression all the way up to 14:1 last time I did any real moding, there are labs that have taken diesel engines and modded them to be at 19:1 and was getting effencies well above the best of the best for diesel, just think if they built engines for this?
 
NO mods are necessary for Bio-D; quality Bio-D that meet EU standards has been shown to be better for the older cars, only now VW is making the blu-tec engines that will not allow Bio-D due to catalytic converters being in place for required better emissions.
 Only thing I did for my MB was to replace worn-out fuel-lines with Bio-D approved lines ( cost only $5 more).

I don't believe that the reduced tonnage on the road will help as much as less pollutants coming out of the tale-pipe would or the reduced crap going to a landfill.

Bicycles are good for close range people and offices, and nice weather or hard core riders who work at offices who understand what they're doing and promote it.
I ride my scooter in weather that even most hardened cyclist won't ( down to 35F and high winds/rainy days). Last Friday for example.
As I said first off biggest reason is $$$
These are my opinions of course, and the number come from actually doing these. Stuff I do that my decrease my available mad money quickly go the away.
I understand you mean no offense, and I too would like to keep this to a civil discussion, that's where some of the best ideas come from.
BUT as people higher paid than I, are saying there will be a point where there is no more oil.
One can say it might be 50 years it might be 500 years; if we make use of the wastes to make fuel and it helps both the pocket book and the environment  then sign me up.
One of the bigger issues are the amount of weight the newer vehicles have due to regulations pushed all because people wouldn't buckle up or drive according to the road conditions or elements.
This is a good discussion I am certainly glad you brought it up. Bate's idea was also a proof of concept, he was a whole lot smarter than I, and it helped get rid of a nasty mess. Chicken poop is really nasty when its 90F and holding a 95RH  :-X

Cheers;
Bruce S

 

 
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zap

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2011, 11:05:13 PM »
This statement I don't fully understand what you are trying to say
 "Because even if others are leaning on alternative fuels, the cost of filling potholes, police to monitor traffic, ambulances to haul the bodies, and host of other wallet squeezing  necessities, still comes from someone's wallet. "

I didn't quite understand that either. 
Between that and this:
Quote
I failed to understand why 'bio' anything should be used as a vehicle fuel.
and his mention of bikes... I guess we're supposed to only ride bikes? :-\

TomW

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2011, 10:33:11 AM »
This statement I don't fully understand what you are trying to say
 "Because even if others are leaning on alternative fuels, the cost of filling potholes, police to monitor traffic, ambulances to haul the bodies, and host of other wallet squeezing  necessities, still comes from someone's wallet. "

I didn't quite understand that either. 
Between that and this:
Quote
I failed to understand why 'bio' anything should be used as a vehicle fuel.
and his mention of bikes... I guess we're supposed to only ride bikes? :-\

Heh, I just decided to ignore the entire comment because most of it just does not make sense to me in the context of the thread?

I guess I am not alone in not understanding the comment.

Some folks are just anti everything so who knows what is intended by the comment?

I will leave it at that.

Tom

Bruce S

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2011, 01:53:01 PM »
I'm trying to be very careful, last time I went down this road with someone, it turned out he was having a 3-day Migraine  >:(.
Normally he's pretty intelligent about things, so may be one of those times.
I will wait and see.
It is good to ask though, I like healthy debates  ;D.
However once the debate goes down the path of name calling or goofy stuff like that I either ignore it or worse go on the attack myself.

Cheers
Bruce S
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captain nodge

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2011, 05:09:26 AM »
having (eventually) made a small quantity of gas in a primitive batch type digester, i would like to try storing it in a gas bottle, does anyone have any tips on doing this.with perhaps a normal small compressor?  ta CN

rossw

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2011, 05:35:23 AM »
I'm trying to be very careful, last time I went down this road with someone, it turned out he was having a 3-day Migraine  >:(.

Don't remind me, just comming out of one myself. I won't remember most of yesterday or today, but that's perhaps the only upside to a migraine.

Harold in CR

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2011, 10:43:16 AM »

 Captain Nodge, Why would you want to store it in a glass bottle ??

 Take a new FLAT inner tube, and, hook it up to the discharge side of the digester.  You should first, run the gas through a Lime-calcium slurry, to remove the corrosive acids from the digesting process.

 You could, then, use a diaphragm compressor to pump the gas into the innertube. Now, you have a pressurized container to hook to a propane regulator, and can use the gas to run a cook stove or space heater, or whatever.

RP

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2011, 12:04:40 PM »

 Captain Nodge, Why would you want to store it in a glass bottle ??


Uhhh,  "gas bottle"...    ;)

Harold in CR

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2011, 02:04:37 PM »
 :-[ :-[ ;D

captain nodge

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2011, 02:23:24 PM »
Good plan, thought maybe i could store it in a gas cannister, but sounds like i would need to chill the gas before compressing, bit beyond my frugal attempt,i soon hope to build a proper digester a john fry design using a tractor sized tube, so what does a diaghram pump look like, are they safer to use?in the bates film it looks like hes using a piston type and basically sucking gas to compress it into a tank then a small gas bottle                             

Bruce S

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2011, 03:23:14 PM »
I'm trying to be very careful, last time I went down this road with someone, it turned out he was having a 3-day Migraine  >:(.

Don't remind me, just comming out of one myself. I won't remember most of yesterday or today, but that's perhaps the only upside to a migraine.
Rossw, MAN-o-Man I feel for ya!!
Since I am too hard headed to not come into work, I usually overdose 1500mg Tylenol and in about 20mins in a dark quiet room and my brain at least forgets enough of the migraine to let me function .
The DAV's (DVA in Australia) idea of treating them is to have me take 10mg Valium 4 x/day. 
Of course there's a new study using LSD for cluster migraines...

Best of luck!
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

Bruce S

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2011, 03:26:09 PM »
having (eventually) made a small quantity of gas in a primitive batch type digester, i would like to try storing it in a gas bottle, does anyone have any tips on doing this.with perhaps a normal small compressor?  ta CN
You can use pumps, but Harold CR's idea is the least expensive for first round trails, BUT BEWARE!! make sure its a new totally empty tire tube of some type. Air and this stuff don't play well together  :o.
Stay Safe
Bruce S
 
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TomW

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2011, 05:25:35 PM »
Back in the early '70s I used an inverted barrel inside another barrel of water and a tap on top to the stove. No regulator just tweaked the jets to use the static pressure created by the barrel weight "plus a rock".

Gas bubbles thru the water up into the barrel where it waits to be used. Too much gas to store and it just burps out the excess. I had access to hog manure so thats what I digested.

Seems it came from Mother Earth News.

Actually worked treat.

Just an idea.

Tom

Bruce S

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2011, 09:18:08 AM »
TomW;
 Thanks for putting that one up too, it is and was one of the best/easiest ways to do this.
Cheers;
Bruce S
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electrondady1

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2011, 09:20:13 AM »
i just finished raking my leaves.
it took about a week.
in the spring , after the snow melts i'll have to do do it again.
 it's all in a fenced pile to compost.
about 640 cu.ft of leaves, weight unknown
it will take 3-4 years to break down back to soil and get spread out under the trees.
i wonder if methane gas could be harvested from this resource.?
and what sort of residue there might be.
if i could get a system working it may be possible to divert all the organic waste that is presently being
placed in the green bin for pick up.

there are two components that would need to be purchased.
the compressor pump and the convertible carburetor.
any one here with real experience with this stuff
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 09:21:45 AM by electrondady1 »

Harold in CR

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2011, 09:32:18 AM »
 Diaphragm compressors do not get "Contaminated" from crankcase fumes. They are commonly sold as "oil-less" compressors.  ::) ::)

 They are a much smaller unit that piston compressors. Piston Compressors "CAN", leak past the rings, into the crankcase and out the seals.

 Tom's idea is perfect, if you don't have a batch digester.

 Actually, septic tanks are digesters. The smell is Methane gas, same as Bean power.  :D :D

 Yes, real experience, nearly 40 years ago. Look for a propane carb, that will bolt up to your engine.

 I have a few photos, but, they are Polaroid, of an inground, 2000 gallon setup, I helped put together. In this setup, there is the small "Pot", with the crushed lime and a "stirrer", so the gas bubbles up through it,. Just give the crank a turn every so often, to keep the lime from settling into a solid mass.

 The compressor was set up, so, as the drums that were the "Collector" were near full, the compressor came on and pumped into a used Propane tank.  If you don't need high pressure, you can use the shop type diaphragm compressor, rated to 120#. No need for a "GAS" bottle, unless you have a scuba tank or Paint ball Compressor, to get to 2200+#.

 I don't have a scanner, and, I doubt the camera will take a suitable photo of the photos.

 I can try, though.

captain nodge

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Re: bates car, sweet as a nut
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2011, 03:09:50 PM »
Tom i like the idea with the inverted barrell as a filter and as a gasometer,you must have had those large round structures that stored and filtered coal gas as we had here in the uk, so along those lines it sounds great, i was amazed how much pushing up power the gas had in my batch digester, it certainly didnt have any probs elevating the inner barrel out of the muck, could  be a miniature gasometer in the pipeline, no pun intended,  also i thought that septic tanks use aerobic digestion so dont make gas, not good clean ch4 anyroads?