Author Topic: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage  (Read 63495 times)

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Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2011, 09:41:55 AM »
Well,

As this thread has seen enough drift, I'll throw in my gust of sideways wind ....

Years ago I considered a 'Velomobile' for the base of a high mileage vehicle. The material I was going to use to build it was wood.

I have built many cold molded 12-14' long vacuum laminated boats weighing less than 65 pounds using 3 X 1/16 veneer of wood. These included solid wood keels, inner ad outer gunnels, and seats that had ice-box type storage. I'm sure a shell structure similar to a velomobile would have similar weight or less not including mechanicals.

Wood is relatively easy to work with and has little or no fatigue problems. Epoxy is still $60 a gallon but you use less and wood is probably cheaper than CF.

Ron
Ron
Not a problem for me on the drift. ;D
Wood I like working with too, it has that "feel" about it.
The velomobile we have here at work was built using mostly fiberglass and it's still holding up just fine. Better than the mechanicals in fact.
The vehicle is to be safe enough to to daily routes which are the more expensive on fuels.
Riding my 150cc scooter I can get to work ~16 miles from home in just under 40 mins and get right at 88mpg l
 IF I take the car I can average on the highway were the fuel mileage is better due to less stop/starts I can average 28mpg for far.
I have also located a nice 23cc 4-stroker that is old enough for me to try running E85 in or get an impco propane carb ( which is looking better) for series hybrid system.
Since I already have the electronics for a 48Vdc system , I will be going that route.
I will be starting out with the 550watt motor the 16Ahr NiCds packs that have already proven themselves.
I believe the lights and creature comforts like a windshield wiper for when it rains will be on a separate 12Vdc system. 


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commanda

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2011, 04:13:29 PM »

Both sure beats the loss due to chain/belt.

 I am hoping Commanda sees this.
She has tons of Knowledge using LiPos on her current 2-wheeler and VAN if I remember correctly. She's using the ThunderSky yellow tops for the VAN.

Cheers
Bruce S


Actually,  I use Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4).

Chain is actually very efficient. So is toothed belt.

I have an EVT 4000e scooter, 48 volt 1500 watt hub motor. Runs 40AHr Thundersky for a top speed of almost 60Km/Hr and range of about 40 Kms.  The 2KiloWattHr cost me $1200 Australian, before BMS & charger, and is 30Kg lighter than the SLA's it replaced. Cycle life is quoted as 2000 cycles to 80% DOD, 3000 cycles to 70%, and my daily commute uses 25%. I don't expect to be replacing the batteries before the scooter falls apart from old age.

NiCd's are significantly heavier than Lithium, capacity is limited, and can't be charged in parallel. This makes building a pack & charging it more problematic.

I also have a push-bike. Street legal in Australia with not more than 200 watts of motor power (180 in fact).  Power is 24 volt and 20 AHr Foxx LiFePO4 which cost $300 before bms & charger.  Cyclone motor drives the chain, with a 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub in the back. Top speed on the flat is 30Km/Hr with some pedalling. A leisurely 20 Km Sunday fun ride along the Cooks river cycleway uses less than 10 AHr, so a range of 40 Km with light pedalling.



Amanda

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2011, 05:51:39 PM »
Commanda;
Thanks for the clarification of the battery chemistry.

 I like the horn the best-est. ;D

I can agree, the LiFeP04 are the better way to go, but with the availability of NiCds for me.This will be my way to go.
We have the Extreme 550 48Vdc system e-bike using 4 16Ahr 14.4V packs that replaced 4 12V 10Ahr batteries and have not had any real problems.
I must however, point out that I use 4 of GHurd's dump controllers setup for  14.4 packs and 4 chargers to keep thing humming along.
Since the owner will most likely NOT being us the e-bike any longer , it will become the donated electronics.

I will miss the Unaugural again :(

Bruce S





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taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2011, 07:13:55 PM »
From what I hear, there was an electric class in the recent Shell Eco-marathon. 

If anyone wanted to have a car that could charge in 10 minutes, they now have the 7700 mah 4s LiPo 65c/130c Thunder Power packs, which are good for 1000 amps for ~10 seconds :)  Weighing in at less than 2 pounds, they would make an excellent battery for one of these cars.  Unfortunately, you would need a charger capable of 46.2 amps to charge them that fast, which I do not know of any  (maybe a mastech?).  Or you could go with the 5 ah G6 pro power packs that can be charged in 5 minutes!  Of course the price is rather high  :(

Plug these into a new mamba xl system and you have a lightweight car that would be as fast as a motorcycle (assuming you could put the power on the ground  --> which you can't... I know).

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2011, 09:09:27 AM »
Those would be nice...but the price! Yikes!!
I don't need it to charge in 10s , 30s is just fine for a quick fill up then use the nice long charge while at work.
I'll stay within my budget for now and trod along with the NiCds and use the weight savings design.
With the egg sized hail moving through here at the moment, a good heavy windshield would be money well spent.

taylorp035. Would you happen to know the tinsel strength of carbon fiber?
I'll go google it, but just in case work gets in the way  ;D .
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taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2011, 01:52:02 PM »
Well, based on my tests from high school, it was about 6-10 times stronger than steel in tension for it's weight.

Quote
(e.g., 3000 MPa ultimate tensile strength, more than 10 times mild steel)
  quote from Wikipedia.


zap

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2011, 08:56:00 PM »
I have also located a nice 23cc 4-stroker that is old enough for me to try running E85 in or get an impco propane carb ( which is looking better) for series hybrid system.
Since I already have the electronics for a 48Vdc system , I will be going that route.
I will be starting out with the 550watt motor the 16Ahr NiCds packs that have already proven themselves.
I believe the lights and creature comforts like a windshield wiper for when it rains will be on a separate 12Vdc system.


This project is really starting to sound interesting Bruce.  Have any sketches yet?

taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2011, 09:23:07 PM »
Quote
I believe the lights and creature comforts like a windshield wiper for when it rains will be on a separate 12Vdc system. 

This is one of our problems with our car right now.  We currently have a minimum of 2 electrical systems, one for the engine and one for everything else.  Unfortunately, that "everything else" category is pretty large and diverse.

Parts that need power include:

the computer  - 5v to 12v converter
the HD touch screen - 12v
the cooled seat - 8.5v - 15.4v
the large LED brake light - ~12v
the new solenoid  powered clutch - 12v - 50v  --> higher voltage for more pushing force
the kill switch lights - ~12v

and the engine components on the 1.4 ah battery  - 12.5v - 14.8v


I am thinking of making the car into a 3 voltage car, where the rear clutch uses 2 4s lipo packs in series.  Which means we would need to have relays and fuses for everything....


As for the windshield, we choose Rain-X and anti-fog wipes for the inside.



ghurd

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2011, 09:38:17 PM »
Quote
I believe the lights and creature comforts like a windshield wiper for when it rains will be on a separate 12Vdc system. 

This is one of our problems with our car right now.  We currently have a minimum of 2 electrical systems, one for the engine and one for everything else.  Unfortunately, that "everything else" category is pretty large and diverse.

Parts that need power include:

the computer  - 5v to 12v converter
the HD touch screen - 12v
the cooled seat - 8.5v - 15.4v
the large LED brake light - ~12v
the new solenoid  powered clutch - 12v - 50v  --> higher voltage for more pushing force
the kill switch lights - ~12v

and the engine components on the 1.4 ah battery  - 12.5v - 14.8v


I am thinking of making the car into a 3 voltage car, where the rear clutch uses 2 4s lipo packs in series.  Which means we would need to have relays and fuses for everything....


As for the windshield, we choose Rain-X and anti-fog wipes for the inside.


Again, as usual, I am confused.  Go figure.

"5v to 12v"?  If you mean 12v to 5v, then a USB car do-hickey would do it?  Or 2 in parallel with a bit of electinkery?

"the new solenoid  powered clutch - 12v - 50v..."?  I don't know what that means.  Curious.

Looks like the rest of the stuff is 12v nominal?

G-
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zap

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2011, 09:41:12 PM »

Looks like the rest of the stuff is 12v nominal?


Yeah, it seems like one DC/DC converter could take care of everything but the solenoid?

taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2011, 09:55:52 PM »
I'm sorry.  It was 12v to 5v for the computer board.

Quote
"the new solenoid  powered clutch - 12v - 50v..."?  I don't know what that means.  Curious.

Well, we have pretty much scrapped the hydraulic operation of the clutch since air bubbles would come out of no where and the pistons were the wrong size (not my fault).  Instead, we found a pair of high powered solenoids that are good for a few ounces of force.  They are rated for 24v and 16 Watts for 100 seconds on / 300 s off.  Since we plan on running them for 5 seconds out of every 2 minutes, we figure we can run them at 24 , 36, or even 48v.  I tested them on a 12s lipo configuration ~50v, and they put out plenty of force.  The travel on them is good for 3/8" for the best results, up to 3/4".  We all ready have them mounted to a bracket and the bar on the plate clutch.  All we need now is the car to put it in.  That should come next week ;D


ghurd

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2011, 10:09:01 PM »
Repeating myself, "I don't know what that means.  Curious."
This time about the solenoids.

Won't that be the same as 'popping the clutch' every time?
If the motor is going to be screaming the entire time it's running, could that cause issues?

"The travel on them is good for 3/8" for the best results, up to 3/4"."
Do they draw battery power the whole time?

G-
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taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2011, 10:18:37 PM »
Quote
Do they draw battery power the whole time?
  The whole time the clutch is engaged (only when the engine is turned on), but it's will be less than 2 amps.

Quote
Won't that be the same as 'popping the clutch' every time?
If the motor is going to be screaming the entire time it's running, could that cause issues?
This is why you have the whole system computer controlled and two rpm meters.  We hope to have the computer to power a relay which will activate the solenoids as the engine is getting up to speed.  This also has to be synchronized with the brushless starter motor.  The biggest challenge will to get an accurate rpm measurement off the engine fast enough for the whole system to be smooth.  The rear will have the photo interrupter which has 120 teeth (good for ~ 0.1 mph accuracy).  Plus, we have a centrifugal clutch on the engine, so nothing should have a shock load.

Now you see why the computer kids on the team are ambitious  ---> (mainly because they accept my crazy ideas).  They are even trying to make an RC helicopter fly autonomously.

ghurd

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2011, 10:38:36 PM »
Wow.
I have a clutch pedal adjusted by the feel/sound and my calf muscle.  LOL

Can't wait to see the pics, and hear more progress,
G-

PS-"make an RC helicopter fly autonomously".  Yikes!
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taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2011, 10:51:10 PM »
Quote
PS-"make an RC helicopter fly autonomously".  Yikes!

Now you know one reason why we have a 7" HD touchscreen and 600mhz mini computer on board  (beagleboard).

Last year's car was so simple.  No EFI or fuel pump, no cooled seat or brushless anything.  Just a simple homemade computer, some lights, and a starter motor set up out of a riding lawn mower (complete with solenoid).

Using a regular bicycle clutch is so much easier, but they seem to max out at 50 ft*lbs.  When you break it, you have to go and search for a left hand drive clutch, which are extremely rare.  We broke ours most likely on our last run at competition last year, probably resulting in the blown rear tire.  If you look at most of the teams there, they all use a jackshaft, which translates to power over to the right side and allows them to get a 10:1 ratio easier.  But, I'm guessing they are loosing 10% ... 0.95*0.95 = 0.9025 efficient.  Plus, they are adding a bunch of weight, sloppiness, and complexity.  I'm not sure if the winner had one, but I do know that they had a custom clutch that wasn't working the way it should of.  I heard that they got 2565 mpg at Shell Eco Marathon last week with their improved car (I think version 5).    http://www.alerionsupermileage.ca/
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 11:07:35 PM by taylorp035 »

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2011, 09:32:12 AM »
I have also located a nice 23cc 4-stroker that is old enough for me to try running E85 in or get an impco propane carb ( which is looking better) for series hybrid system.
Since I already have the electronics for a 48Vdc system , I will be going that route.
I will be starting out with the 550watt motor the 16Ahr NiCds packs that have already proven themselves.
I believe the lights and creature comforts like a windshield wiper for when it rains will be on a separate 12Vdc system.


This project is really starting to sound interesting Bruce.  Have any sketches yet?
Only in my brain. Me and CAD systems don't work well together and a ruler is NOT my friend  ;D
The last of the donor items arrived yesterday , just before the clouds fell down all over StL and then all HE... broke loose with the rain,wind & trees.
Can you say fire wood for next winter :)
I'll get pics of the donor stuff. I'm itching to get at this.
The battery packs and Ghurd controllers all tested like they should.
I don't like the solder job on the packs though. So that's gonna be changed on production units.
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Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2011, 09:39:51 AM »
Well, based on my tests from high school, it was about 6-10 times stronger than steel in tension for it's weight.

Quote
(e.g., 3000 MPa ultimate tensile strength, more than 10 times mild steel)
  quote from Wikipedia.


Thanks for the info. I will be locating some to try my hand at laying it up. I have an idea of using tubular carbon fiber for internal structure components as well.
Once I find a good source and get the hand work figured out I want to see how it will hold up to twisting too.
On the old Military APCs This time standing for Armored Personnel Carrier they used glass fiber rods for torsional and worked great while loaded, but broke into billion pieces if you dropped one on the ground.

How's the paint job coming along on your hyper-miler?
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Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2011, 10:48:55 AM »
    http://www.alerionsupermileage.ca/
I can say for certain, I will at this time NOT be building a car like that. Even if I made it high enough off the ground, I'd be getting hit by cars ooogling at it and certainly be pulled over by every police force from home to work wanting if nothing else to see inside it.
I do like the lines of it.

The tadpole design is my favorite , though the delta has some passenger riding advantages to it.
taylorp035: If my eyes and mind are seeing things correctly they are using a form of ground effects to slip-stream the back wheel/tire setup. Hence the downward slope of the body.
Am I wrong?


ZAP And G-
I have located dc-to-dc converters that may work out so I don't need a separate 12V system for lights and such. Kind of expensive and would have a pull on the drive train system. We'll see.
My other thought will be to use the spare scooter stator I have instead of a full sized Alternator. These are fairly easy enough to rewire (Did that for the 150cc already once, due to cheap-o design) AND getting easy to find cheap! ;D
Though this will be a known drag on the trike it will be an added source of recharging for the 12V system if I decide NOT to tap the 48V system with a dc-to-dc converter.

Cheers;
Bruce S
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zap

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2011, 11:13:28 AM »
I have an idea of using tubular carbon fiber for internal structure components as well.

This was probably well over 10 years ago... ::)
There was a guy who had documented his low-racer recumbent build in carbon fiber.  I remember the photos were absolutely spectacular (for that time period) and his attention to detail, in the build and the documenting of it, was fantastic.
I had his pages bookmarked and poured over them often.  I lost the bookmarks but I remember the guy was somewhere in Florida, IIRC he was on AOL and I think that's where all the pages were also?
He spelled everything out so well, I knew I could probably replicate his work.

If I can find that again I'll link it.

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2011, 11:19:18 AM »
ZAP;
Thanks for the update. I knew I'd seen this concept done before.
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zap

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2011, 11:42:53 AM »
Bruce, this might be the guy:
http://www.jjscozzi.com/

I found pictures from a '03 HPV race and his low-racer looked familiar.

I'll need to look at the site a little more but so far... I think he's the one I was remembering.
Not quite 10 years old but why does it seem like it was 15??? :-[ ::) :'(

taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2011, 11:58:21 AM »
Quote
How's the paint job coming along on your hyper-miler?
Should be done next week by Friday.  We haven't see it yet.  According to local dealers, there is a 6 month wait for body / paint work in the Erie area....  not good for us.

Quote
If my eyes and mind are seeing things correctly they are using a form of ground effects to slip-stream the back wheel/tire setup. Hence the downward slope of the body.
Am I wrong?

I don't know.  I know that there is a minimum height that reduces wind shear from the ground.  I have not taken an aerodynamics course (and they stopped offering it at my school).

If you want to do carbon fiber, I would do some tests with no vacuum set up first.  Use plexi-glass and / or food plastic wrap to make sure the epoxy doesn't stick to anything.  Remember that using tape generally doesn't work when holding carbon fiber because the tape gets wet and then it doesn't stick.  Our pink foam frame in our car is held together with toothpicks and duct tape.  Start off with a small test piece (6" part or so) and make it 3-5 layers thick.  Alternate the orientation of the layers for more stiffness.  Always cover the part with the fabric first so you can make all of the corners.  Cutting wet fabric will probably ruin your siccors if you forget to clean then (and glue them together).  Then it requires a hammer to get them apart.

The hardest part is getting the glue mixture right.  I suggest a plastic container that you can throw away (cool whip containers work well).  Basically you mix the right ratio (ours is 3 parts resin to 1 part hardener).  If you get the ratio backwards, you will have a steaming hot plastic dish and you may burn your table.....  Once you add the two, mix it slowly for 3 minutes and you are good to go.  The amount of glue needed is just enough to get it wet.  You can either add glue every layer or at the end, assuming you have the right type of fabric.  Then let it dry in a warm place (70-80 F rooms is good).  It should take 24 hours to dry decently, 72 hrs for sure.  If it doesn't dry, either it was too cold or you got the ratio wrong.  The different hardeners provide different drying times.   Pot life is generally at least 30 minutes, but it can be more than an hour with the right ratio.  If you use the 2:1, then it may only be a couple minutes and the whole thing will be rock hard in 12-24 hrs.

This is where we get our glue (I think the carbon fiber fabric too).  They have lots of good info for beginners.
http://www.uscomposites.com/

My opinion for the frame rods would be to make sure you plan everything out because connecting things to carbon fiber is difficult.  If you have 8 or more layers, you can use 10-24 or 1/4-20 riv-nuts.  This is how we are holding our seat belt in.  Else, you need to may some aluminum under the C.F. so you can sink some bolts.

Obviously, C.F. is better in tension.  Don't expect a C.F. sheet with the same dimensions as a steel plate (say 1/8" thick) to be as stiff.

Option 2 says to buy some pre-made C.F rod, but you will pay for it dearly.  1/8" plate made of C.F. is about $1 per square inch.  I think you can make it for less than half that, maybe even $0.25.


If you decide to go the vacuum route, there are some more difficult challenges to over come, like how to get the excess glue out of the C.F.  (I used bubble wrap, but the surface turns in to a golf ball).


I'm not sure how much it is worth to spend a bunch of money on making the car lighter.  The body can realize a lot of weight reduction, but it takes a lot of C.F.  Maybe 2- 3 layers for something to just to push the wind out of the way.... definitely no structural properties.  The frame uses a lot less C.F.  and it saves you from welding anything.  Plus, you can add more C.F. if you want at anytime.  We probably saved 20+ pounds on our frame, mainly because you can make the beams taller for a higher moment of inertia than an aluminum beam.


« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 12:02:48 PM by taylorp035 »

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2011, 02:19:23 PM »
Bruce, this might be the guy:
http://www.jjscozzi.com/

Zap;
 WOW! He's light years ahead of where I'M at :)
Thanks for the link I have a bunch of ooogling and reading to do.
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Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2011, 02:38:26 PM »
taylorp035;
Thanks for the tips. Seems to be a lot like laying up fiberglass for body repair.
I may go with building a "test" unit with no body coverings just to see how it going to do and knockout any possible problems that can show up.
Since I'm pretty sure it'll be a one off machine I also want to make sure I can get to all the inner workings.

Thanks for the link they popped up on a Google search too.
Check with "governing agency" to see about this being legal enough to on the roads and go street speeds. I know the 23cc motor meets the under 50cc limit, but Mo is hard fast about the max wattage for the electric motor being 749 watts . I get caught with anything above that and NO motocycle license plates on it and I get a ticket and they can even impound it.
Insurance is easy.

Bruce S
 
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Madscientist267

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2011, 04:38:59 PM »
Looks like this thing might come together.

But one question arises above all within the entire presentation.

What does the RAM do?



LOL I just now caught that... and I've been watching from close to the beginning on this one hahaha

Once a computer geek, ALWAYS a computer geek. What is that, PC-100? 133? ;D

Steve
The size of the project matters not.
How much magic smoke it contains does !

zap

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2011, 04:52:43 PM »
Once a computer geek, ALWAYS a computer geek. What is that, PC-100? 133?  ;D

Bruce will probably be mad at me for this...

See... Bruce doesn't like people knowing how old he is...
That's actually a picture of the batteries and memory from his first cell phone.  Actually it's 3 sets of batteries and 2 sets of ram... but hey, the phone did have almost 50 megs of memory!!!... which was quite a bit back then.
Sorry Bruce.

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2011, 05:30:36 PM »
 OKAY ;D
neither said anything about the use of duct-tape instead of hot glue :)
The RAM is even older than it looks.
They were for a couple IBM thinkpad 380HD (bricks)!! whopping 64meg on those two bad boys and nope can't use both in the laptops, room only for one.

I also still have my bag phone, Motorola. Time was it was ALL there was and one months bill was 600.00$ glad the company I was working for at the time picked up that one :o

The laptops are now in Upper Pulau, Philippines grade and hopefully still working. Its amazing what you can do to recycle machines!
Loaded Win98 and a transportable type of OOog so they children could use them to  learn computing, typing spreadsheets,etc.
AND don't get me started on how well they are taught!! WOW!! The children had to answer test questions in both native language (Tagalog) and then in English, and the answer better be the same ;)
Rich Hagen and I are gearing up to go back in 2012 NOV-ish. Rich's building of the LED lights are second to none!
anyway go off on a tangent!!


 
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Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2011, 05:32:03 PM »
BTW: That pack still works too  :P just not in the Aerorider  ;)
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2011, 05:35:52 PM »
If you need lots of power under 50cc, there are lots of choices that run on gasoline.  Here there is a 4.5 hp engine.   ;D

http://www.rtfskymasters.com/home/rc-vehicles/hpi-baja-5b-ss-kit/ 

They may even make a turbo for these guys....  Kinda what we need for the supermileage car (higher compression).


zap

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2011, 06:17:47 PM »
neither said anything about the use of duct-tape instead of hot glue :)

LOL... I'm so used to seeing the ebike batteries covered in duct tape that I get suspicious if I don't see any!

And now a little...
a e r o d y n a m i c s

(it's even related to ground transportation!  How's that for getting back on track?)
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=870
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/index-phil-knox-aerodynamics-seminars-mod-data-lists-7118.html

taylorp035

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #63 on: April 20, 2011, 07:12:13 PM »
Aerodynamics.... good idea  :).  We have a drag coefficient of 0.11.  Not too many cars will beat that.  Basically a rain drop from every direction, except for the bottom, which is flat.


ghurd

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #64 on: April 21, 2011, 12:26:26 AM »
Anybody see Mythbusters, Dirty vs Clean car?
Golfball dimples increased fuel economy 11%.  26.x to 29.x MPG
They showed it again tonight.
(originally broadcast 29 Oct 2009)

If you can stand the commercials,  "High-Speed 3", 0:14, shows it.
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-dirty-vs-clean-car/

G-
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

Bruce S

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Re: trikes and weight savings for higher fuel milage
« Reply #65 on: April 21, 2011, 09:23:50 AM »
Anybody see Mythbusters, Dirty vs Clean car?
Golfball dimples increased fuel economy 11%.  26.x to 29.x MPG
They showed it again tonight.
(originally broadcast 29 Oct 2009)

If you can stand the commercials,  "High-Speed 3", 0:14, shows it.
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-dirty-vs-clean-car/

G-
YES I did  ;D I use that episode to show people my reason for letting the car NOT get washed.

This is a sad week too  ???. The MB300D is no longer apart of my family. Though the engine still had a good 100k left in her and the leather seats were oh so nice to ride on , the under-carriage was gone. I sat down in her to come to work one day and was quickly staring at the steering wheel.  :-[. Seems when they undercoated the car some 20+ years ago they also plugged every weep-rain drain hole there was causing it to rust under my feet. Literally...
It is now gone, and true to what I kept telling my lovely wife for 2 years now, I'll buy a new car when I can get one that gets 2+mpg better than the MB.
Shazaaaaam ! TADA ! Enter 2010 Chevy Cobalt flexfuel 2.2l 4-door.
Currently getting 27.3 city driving 37.2 highway , using 87Octane so far...
Once I have a few fuel tanks of averages I will start working on E-85 blends .

G- what's the word on using the Bio-D for heat?
 
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