The Truth About Small Wind Turbines

[B529]

The last words cover that.
"Finally, what if you do not have much wind to speak off, no expectation to ever earn back the investment in a small wind turbine, but you just like the looks and want to promote the idea of a greener life style. Those can be fine reasons to install one too. Just go for it!"
G-

I agree that people who want a wind turbine should be allowed to have one, even if they live on a poor site, provided that they understand the downsides.  But I would not call if a greener lifestyle since the turbine will never pay back its cost of production and will end up being a consumer toy that illustrates and confirms the futility of renewable energy to a skeptical world.

I agree with Hugh's point. If a potential customer is in a poor wind site and I have given an honest disclosure of predicted production. Who am I to tell someone how to spend their money?

[DamonHD]

B529: possibly eco-bling should be discouraged in the same way as any other waste of resources, with a side-order of disingenuity?

Rgds

Damon

[B529]

Chris Olson;

  "So while the installers are sitting around lamenting on how small wind doesn't pay off, the Chinese build and sell microturbines by the boatload because they see the market for them."


This is the truth now.

How is it possible, that in our Western and European world, there is no mass factory produced cheap and real options for small  windpower ?

We can get complete and good 5kw diesel generator under 500-1000$, but 5kw windgenerator costs ..  

Its no wonder, that Chinese economy boosts with douple numbers, every year !

Antero

Thanks for opening my eyes.  I've been doing this all wrong installing only quality turbines with a proven track record and walking away from potential deals in poor wind sites.

I'll order a boatload of CHEAP Chinese turbines and maybe get a boatload of 50 cents and hr Chinese worker to come over to install them. Put up a bunch of them, won't care about the site. I'll be rolling in the money. When they fail, I'll tell the customers it's not my problem, call China. Sounds like a good long term business plan.

[Antero]

Bs 29;

Have you read my experiences about wind power with Exmork, it is really a robust and cheap windgenerator;

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Filmaisenergia.info%2Ffoorumi%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D257.0

This is my energy diary;

http://translate.google.fi/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Filmaisenergia.info%2Ffoorumi%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D275.0&act=url

It is no wonder, that solarpanel sellers are very worried and have started to write HERE in our forum "Wind" !  

It does not matter for me, how you produce unpolluted energy.
I have experience about solar panels too, but they give just a fraction of energy in my case, compared to wind energy and are quite expensive at the moment.

In this forum "Wind" we are developing windgenerators, self-made and factory-made and all the solutions for them.

Antero

[ghurd]

I suppose it is my turn to be the GM in the cross hairs. 

Have you read my experiences about wind power

We saw it.  You put the link in almost every story you post to, even when it is not relative.

I should buy an Exmork, yes?
I have no area to put it, except in the basement.  If it fits in my basement.

It is no wonder, that solarpanel sellers are very worried and have started to write HERE in our forum "Wind" ! 

The guys that own the forum often tell people solar is better than small wind for the circumstances of the asker.

The truth about small wind turbines is a very small percentage of people can actually install one that would do much good where they have available,
and solar is feasible to a far higher percentage of the worlds population.

You said "Batteries used, but robust 2000Ah 24v 500$."
Typically, people find the advertised life and cost of the batteries cost more per WH than grid.
And my local cost for batteries is typically much less than in Europe, and my electric bills runs about 16 cents per Kwh delivered (stated cost is 5.9 cents) though it can go past 50 cents.

We all agree about education is something that needs done.
Telling the general population of most places a chinees turbine is a great idea is advertising, not education.
G-

[TomW]

G;

Was forming the same opinion myself.

Yadda Yadda Yadda, check my ...

Tom

[Bruce S]

Have you read my experiences about wind power with Exmork, it is really a robust and cheap windgenerator;

This is my energy diary;

It is no wonder, that solarpanel sellers are very worried and have started to write HERE in our forum "Wind" !  

It does not matter for me, how you produce unpolluted energy.
I have experience about solar panels too, but they give just a fraction of energy in my case, compared to wind energy and are quite expensive at the moment.

In this forum "Wind" we are developing windgenerators, self-made and factory-made and all the solutions for them.

Antero

Antero:
I'm sure I'm late to this posting but this IS beginning to look a lot like a ad for you and your site.
Your learned-ed opinion is very welcome, but please state the facts in the post and try not to keep linking those.
It helps having the information in front of the reader and not need to jump back and forth into google-based translations.

Where I live solar is cheaper and allowed to install than any sized Wind generator. To each his own.

Many Thanks;
Bruce S

 

[piglet2]

Well, this Antero is a retired (more or less!) scalper and seems to act as a "self made" agent for Exmork wind turbines here in Finland.

At least ten unsuspecting beginners who believe in his "totally free energy" have bought Exmork wind turbines with his "altruistic" import-help.

He is at the same time "helping" these buyers to buy Finnprop water heating controllers for about US$ 5000 apiece!

This ilmaisenergia.info website he is referring to seems to be his pet ad-site, the owner does not kick him out and there is no limit how old stories he can edit.  And he edits stories more than a year old so that he would seem more credible.

He is polluting every imaginable discussion board with his "ads".

Exmork wind turbines are not bad at all though.
I have two and a grid tie inverter and I am very happy with them.

I did not buy those to save money, I just happen to like the technology and they are much more fun to watch than solar panels.

To save money I have a ground source 13kW heatpump with a COP of around 4.5.

By the way, I have NOT bought my turbines or anything else with his "help".
I bought mine directly from James Ye, Exmork, partly because Poco Dinero and some other sensible persons here were happy with theirs.

/piglet

[Rob Beckers]

...
I did not buy those to save money, I just happen to like the technology and they are much more fun to watch than solar panels.
...

Thank you for the perspective Piglet!
I fully agree with your statement (above). For the vast majority of people putting up wind turbines that's probably the only right approach. Please post back in some time how the Exmork is holding up. If it's a cut above the other products from China I would like to know, so I can inform people properly.

-Rob-

[piglet2]

Hi.

I have had mine up for about 6 months, the windmills are very heavy and well built, they work very well.

Unfortunately they do not deliver much anything since the wind does not blow much at all.
Here this is usual only during the winter, spring, autumn and also during the summer.

Worst winterdays we had around -35 degrees centigrade, no wind, no problems (yet!).

If these hold maybe 25 more years, no lightning strikes, the wind starts blowing and I do not have to fix anything, then I might get almost all my money back.

Just now it looks like I am getting between 1000 and  2000 kWh a year.

But my neighbours suppose that I am getting enormous amounts of "FREE" energy.

And that is nice.

[mbouwer]

Here in Holland I would like to get in touch with more Piggott design builders.
Searching for cooperation in joining these world wide activities.

Rinus

[scoraigwind]

Here in Holland I would like to get in touch with more Piggott design builders.
Searching for cooperation in joining these world wide activities.

Rinus

I know several people who are active in building my turbines.  I will not post their emails on the open web, but you can use mine hugh@scoraigwind.co.uk and write me an email asking for them.

Here are some urls:
http://www.windenergy.nl/website/index.php/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QRK0nMsbf8&feature=channel_page
http://www.vanalleswat.nl/
http://www.i-love-windpower.com/
http://www.de12ambachten.nl
http://v3power.co.uk/Downloads.php

[carmatic]

hey guys, my first post here

i just wanted to share an idea with you, since the article mentioned VAWT's ... specifically it is about the Savonius turbine, even though it was dismissed by the article

there has been talk about how to increase the efficiency of the Savonius rotor, and one of the ideas mentioned was to put a shroud on the retreating side , but this practically turns it into an inefficient horizontal axis wind turbine

but then i had a thought, what happens if you have some Darreius blades surrounding the Savonius rotors, but be in such a close proximity that the 'downwash' from the Darreius blades will nullify some of the wind going against the Savonius's retreating side? the blades would not have a normal Darreius aerofoil profile since they have to account for the effect of the Savonius rotor on the airflow, specifically the side which is facing away from the wind will probably not get any lift, so the blades will have to work at even more oblique angles of attack than they already are in a plain Darreius turbine

in all likelihood this may not be a breakthrough in wind turbine efficiency, but i have always believed that different wind turbines are suited for different 'wind regimes' , HAWT's for wind tunnel-perfect air, Darreius's for slightly less steady air, and Savonius for scavenging whatever wind energy you could when you absolutely need it... so i think that a VAWT like mine can serve the gap in which the wind is too fast for a simple Savonius turbine to be efficient, yet too slow for Darreius blades alone...
this is distinct from having a VAWT with practically independent Savonius and Darreius sections, either because they are placed one above the other since the Savonius turbine will simply be a load for the Darreius blades unless you use a one way bearing, or because the Savonius rotor has negligible diameter compared to the Darreius blades which would nullify the low windspeed-capturing property of the Savonius rotor (that, or have the Darreius blades be of such large diameter that it is pushing the definition of 'small wind turbine' ) ; i believe that the interaction between the Savonius and Darreius rotors can be taken advantage of to create a better wind turbine


::edit:: actually, if you apply Newton's 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction' law, it would become apparent that the downwash coming from the Darreius rotors would divert the wind in a rotation opposite of the Darreius rotor
hence, the Savonius rotor would have to rotate in the opposite direction of the Darreius in order to take advantage of the downwash... depending on the cost and availability of coaxial contra rotating gearsets, it may make a viable option for VAWT's to perform at levels closer to HAWT's

[electrondady1]

wind is too fast for a simple Savonius turbine.
?

drag and lift verticals are sometimes combined.
 but it is usually about the Darrius type configuration failing to self start .
there has been a lot of research into wing profiles lately
 and self starting is not the problem it once was