Author Topic: test blades??  (Read 2435 times)

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artv

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test blades??
« on: March 14, 2011, 07:08:42 PM »
Hi all,..I was getting anxious to get up in the air. So I just made a quick set of blades out of 1/2" plywood.The root is 5 1/4", the tip is 2 5/8, with 3" run on the root ,before the taper for the trailing edge begins.......The leading edge,should it be angeled into the wind or is it the trailing edge??? .....Also I've been reading about the air-foil, does it end up being on the back side of the blade???....The face of the blade,is the part that faces the wind correct???....I tried 3 diferent arrangements today, the last one seemed to work pretty good.Balancing was a pain,when balanced you should be able to set ,any one of the blades at  0degrees( straight up)  and it should hold there????............the blades are alot more work than I thought they were going to be..........any replies welcome .....thanks ......artv

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: test blades??
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2011, 08:58:19 PM »
The airfoil shape is to make the wind leave the blade at a different angle than it arrived, with as little drag as practical.  Computing in detail the lowest-drag shapes is a job for supercomputers, so it was done by trial-and-error in wind tunnels before such computers were available.  But understanding the basics is doable:

The leading edge (the one that hits you if you put your hand into a spinning rotor) should be rounded and a bit upwind of the trailing edge.  The rounding lets the airflow of the "apparent wind" (the vector sum of the actual wind and the wind from the blade's motion) attach to the blade from a range of angles (for which you pay a bit of drag.)

The trailing edge should be sharp.  This lets the airflow around both sides of the blade recombine smoothly and leave in a well-defined direction and without turbulence.

The hump is on the downwind side of the blade.  The air is easy to control on the upwind side because if it didn't take the turn it would bump into the blade.  So the blade just has to be reasonably smooth to keep the drag down, and the curve mostly doesn't matter.  But on the downwind side the air has to be sweet-talked into staying with the blade as it curves from one direction of flow to another, rather than "detaching" and going off on its own, causing the blade to lose power ("stall").  Thus the smooth hump.

The blade has "twist" because the real wind is the same regardless of radius, but the wind from the motion is proportional to radius.  So the slope of the chord (line from the middle of the leading edge to the middle of the trailing edge) doubles every time the radius halves.  And the ideal blade width gets wider as the total apparent wind goes down.  At the center this would make the blade ridiculously (infinitely!) wide and sloped parallel to the axis.  But the power collected by a patch of the blade is proportional to the area "swept".  So the closer to the center, the less power you lose by being non-ideal.  The outer half of the blade collects 75% of the power.  The outer 3/4 collects 93.75%.  So the innermost quarter of the blade is pretty much just there for support and only curved to avoid drag.  You can make it non-ideal, or just flat, and hardly notice the lost power.  (Though its steep slope and long chord length is useful for getting the mill started up, when the blade isn't yet moving fast enough for the airflow to attach to the blades' back.)

The idea is, when the shaft is properly loaded, to make the air leave the mill with about a third of the downwind velocity that it had when approaching it.  At this point the blade will be spinning with about half the RPM it would have if there were no load on the shaft and the air was leaving about as fast and in about the same direction as it arrived.

Does that help?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 09:10:59 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

artv

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Re: test blades??
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2011, 09:09:59 AM »
ULR..thank-you for the reply,To see if I understand.The blades should twist  upward and away from their base?? eg: lay the hub on a flat surface,attach the blade to the hub, as you go out from the hub to the blade tip , the blade's leading edge should raise up into the air,the leading edge has an abrupt curve which gradually slopes away to the trailing edge??This is on the part of the blade that faces the wind??The back side of the blade is just basically flat, but twisted to match the twist of the front??..........is that about right??.thanks .....artv

opo

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Re: test blades??
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2011, 10:22:00 AM »
It is all the way around!

Setting the rotor on the floor, the leading edge line must be parallel to the floor. The trailing edge line goes up as you move from hub to tip. At the same time the trailing edge gets closer and closer to the leading edge.

The flat side faces the wind,  the hump side goes behind.

Cheers,

octavio
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 10:28:41 AM by opo »
http://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=opo Check my apps aFoil and aFoilSim on android market.

ghurd

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artv

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Re: test blades??
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 08:16:03 AM »
Thanks for the  replies and the links ,pretty clear now...........artv

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: test blades??
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2011, 01:41:11 PM »
It is all the way around!

Setting the rotor on the floor, the leading edge line must be parallel to the floor. The trailing edge line goes up as you move from hub to tip. At the same time the trailing edge gets closer and closer to the leading edge.

Trailing edge is near the floor at the tip and goes up as you get toward the hub.  If the blade was the same width all along the trailing edge would be twice as high in the middle as at the tip, four times as high 3/4 of the way from the tip to the hub, etc.  This would make it very long and nearly parallel to the axis near the hub, but there's no point in continuing this beyond about 3/4 of the way in.  Because the blades change width you actually raise it even more as you go inward.  What matters is that the slope doubles when the radius halves.

Yes the blade are narrower at the tip and wider near the hub - even beyond the amount needed to compensate for the greater angle with respect to the wind near the axis due to the twist.
Quote

The flat side faces the wind,  the hump side goes behind.

Right.