New direct drive on a solid shaft

[jarrod9155]

Great point on the 60 mm but what was the shaft , stainless , chrome molly , carbon steel ,. I went with carbon steel so it would not be brittle . Thank you for the reference I'll keep and eye on that .

[Janne]

Jarrod,

There is no mention about the material of the snapped shaft. The guide does recommend carbon "shaft" steel for windmill drive train components.

[zvizdic]

In Canada (US to ) is called  1045  Precision Shafting steel .

[fabricator]

I always use chrome moly 4140/4142.

[SparWeb]

Thanks Janne, for the reference:

I found it here:
http://translate.google.com/translate?tl=en&sourceid=ie8-activity&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tuulivoimayhdistys.fi%2Fin%2Benglish

(With a little help of Google Translate)
It couldn't translate "hyrrävaikutus" but that may be either "thrust" or "torque" or some other reference to loads, right?

The page has a link to a PDF "handbook" (near the bottom) but it is broken.  Is there another way to get it?  I've found some very detailed information from european wind associations in the past, so this may be similar.  If so, I would enjoy reading through it too.

Hi all,

The 1% value has been presented as a safe value for the main shaft in the in the homebrewn wind turbine guide.  The guide is written back in the 90's by the Finnish wind associations self - build department, by some of the hobbyists that build big DIY turbines at that time for heating purposes, in the 10-20kW range. Smaller than that should of course be ok with good planning (as has been witnessed here). In my opinion, as I'm not too much mechanically inclined, I'd use a shaft near the suggested value, as in the overall cost it's not a very big issue, and considering the major problems it might cause later on.
The guide tries to elaborate the point with a picture of a failed 60mm shaft, that has snapped under the strains of 11m diameter rotor, after a few years of running
My 2(€)c worth.

[Janne]

Hi Steven,

"Hyrrävaikutus" translates to gyroscopic forces. I haven't noticed, that they have also published a short list of guidelines on their website.

 The "builders guide" I was referring to is a folder containing about 250 pages of material divided into different categories related to windmill building.. Generators, tower, transmissions, electrical systems, siting, safety control systems etc... Unfortunately, it's all written in finnish, with lots of the diagrams drawn by hand, so it would be extremely complicated to translate :/ .

The (broken) .pdf file linked at the bottom of the page is a short introduction to building small wind turbines, originally published by a finnish company that is (was?) importing components and turbines from china. As far as i know, they've since stopped importing the components, and that probably is the reason for them removing the guide from public availability.

[SparWeb]

"250 pages"
Hmmm.  Sounds like the RISO design guide that I was talking about, actually.  I have an english version of that, and it's packed full of useful data.

http://proxy.bookfi.org/genesis2/245000/b588ea1ce95ba96ebe168944dc425acf/_as/%5B%5D_Guidelines%20for%20design%20of%20wind%20turbines%20Copenhagen(BookFi.org).pdf

If the website you are referring to is NOT like the Riso design guide, I would appreciate a link to it.  I'm not that bad with languages, really.  I've translated lots of French, a bit of German and Spanish.  I could try to do the same with the Finnish.

How hard could it be!?   

[Janne]

The guide is in old-school paper form, but of course it would be possible to scan some of the interesting parts. I called one of the main authors, and he agreed that his writings could be translated and published here.

[jarrod9155]

 I finally got back to my direct drive unit this week after taking the summer off to go camping and boating with family . Through the summer I did finish the winch mount and concreted base for it 22 bags of concrete ,so no more taking the f250 mudding in my back yard !! . I got the new generator mounted on the pole and did about three test runs up and down with the winch worked awesome , way smother and safer using a 10,000 pound Dc winch instead of a vehicle . I will say the new generator built with out blades is around 300 plus pounds with out blades . Getting that monster a  100 yards out to the pole in 20 inches of snow built was worst than paying for neo magnates LOL !!!! .
     I hope Tommorrow or the next day to remount the 20 foot blades and rebalance every thing at night when the wind is at its lowest . I'll be sure to repost some pics .  So far I'm digging the new look of the direct drive 60 feet up .

Jarrod
 

[12AX7]

Please tell us that that 20 inches of snow was from LAST YEAR!


it's too early for that stuff...

[jarrod9155]

Its been up for two days wind has been really nothing just 6 to 10mph wind today is forecasted 10 to 20 mph should be a good test to see how the new tail section with the spring will work .

==
Removed the repeats.
G-

[jarrod9155]

sorry for the same photos new mac book pro not really use to it yet .

[jarrod9155]

[jarrod9155]

==
If you want to rotate that around and re-post it, someone will get rid of this one.
G-

[jarrod9155]

[TomW]

These must be photos from the southern hemisphere.

And its messing with my gravitational orientation.

 
Tom

[jarrod9155]

No, just a Mac book pro that I'm  new too . I wish I could just post pics from my iPad .

[Bruce S]

No, just a Mac book pro that I'm  new too . I wish I could just post pics from my iPad .

Jarrod; While I do not own one, I have setup several for the "management" here at the office.
I taught them how to cheat  by setting up a gmail account forward them from IPAD to gmail / picasa , then send up to the forum.
I'm sure Apple guru's here have a better way.
Kinda funny that an Apple device sends to 'droid' based  but hey it works 
Hope that helps;
Bruce S

[jarrod9155]

Thanks Bruce I'll give that a try .
    Wind turbine survived 43 mph gust the furling system was working but a little to soon peak watts were 1300 watts changed the spring out with a stronger  spring , Should add a couple more watts .And so far the bearings are looking good no sign of problems .

[ChrisOlson]

And its messing with my gravitational orientation.

It's messing with my total orientation.  If I looked on out the winder and my wind turbine looked like that I'd be hollering for my wife to ask her why she turned the house upside down.
--
Chris

[jlt]

Glad you got It Up and running . Maybe a A  vertical wind turbine that really works? With a up furling tail

[Jerry]

(Attachment Link)

  I think these pictures are for our freind in OZ down under.

Jerry

[just-doug]

first i would like to say nice build.2nd,all good designs are a balance of hopefully good features.separating the generator from the blades could be called a divorced unit,done to protect the genorator from the blades.looking over your pictures  it now appears the genorator may be indanger of getting smacked by the tail boom.if its not one thing its a nother!  looks like it might be feasible to put a bump stop on the tail boom to line up with the generator main shaft as a double safety  to prevent generator damage.or something on that order.you have done a lot of nice work hate to see it grind it self up.

[jarrod9155]

Actually if you look close there is a stop mounted to pivot shaft . I spent a year trying to make this thing bullet proof with the help from Chris .
Thanks for the heads up .
    I will say dialing the spring for the furling is requiring way more spring tension than originally thought .

[jarrod9155]

Update ,
     Here is a link to u tube of the new generator on the same turbine . Changes are 21 inch rotor plates instead of 18 inch , 20 magnets per plate instead 16 , magnets are 1 by 2 3/4 thick n42 old ones were 1/2 , coils are 15 at 14 awg 160 turns stator is 3/4 thick not by choice !!
  First day up had 10 to 20 mph wind with the tail furl set light on the spring load was furling at about 15 mph starts and 20 fully furled with max output 2,400 watts . Im sure I could push more out of it but I'm in no hurry to find the braking point!! .
   Machine run a lot smother , furling mor consistent with better load from the bigger generator . By adding more volts to the mppt curve today I could change the furling by 5 mph pretty interesting , I had it furling full at just 15mph added more volts brought the rpms up furled at 20 mph adding about 800 watts to the peak before furled it wasn't  that consistent  with the smaller generator . I can't remember the last time I was seeing 1,800 watts steady with 15 mph winds  Very happy today !!

First video before install     www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7ILg2ZMIb8&feature=youtube_gdata_player               


Second video up and flying         www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j7iPhHpiWc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Dave B]

  Way to go Jarrod ! It's been a long wait I know but I also know how satisfying it is to see the load control the turbine grinding out the power instead of it slipping by and over speeding. I know you know that if your voltage seems right now that you could gain even more control (and room to play with the curve) by fewer winds on the coils and a thinner stator getting the magnets even closer together. It's a bunch of money (I've been through it 3 times) to wind another stator but my last rebuild of all the changes including another stator has been well worth the effort.

  Great job, patience wins out and the straight through shaft is the way to go instead of hanging all the weight on a single wheel bearing and then all the bad things that can happen once even just a bit of runout happens. Been there done that too, it's scarey, frustrating and only by cutting down the size of my machine has this allowed possibly 1 year of bearing life. Wooden blades can be heavy also possibly adding to the limited bearing life of some machines. Add in the $15.00 farm tractor supply special china tapered bearing and wah lah, self destruction. Big thanks to Chris too for showing us the way of this design, that guy is doing some pretty special stuff.

  Keep it on the safe side, load that baby down and be happy above 20 MPH, we all know too well how fast things happen on the steeper part of the curve with very little increase in wind speed. Congrats again and enjoy, you will sleep better nights.

  Dave B.

[ghurd]

quote-
"And uh and that's it."
Sounds like a piece of cake.

Very nice.
G-

[jarrod9155]

Thank you Dave I hope this build helps the DIY's out there . I'm already thinking of my next turbine with the same generator and blades  but adding a rotor and caliper for a parking brake  . I do believe having the ability to stop or ATTEMP to stop the turbine even with stator failure is a plus .

[nekit]

This design gives you more room for a parking brake. I could see that being a definate plus.  What your peak VDC that you have seen so far? Not sure if you know it, but you can find this out in communicator software.  It logs it at the end of the day.  You have to go to inverter statistics pull down tab.  Then click input voltage for previous day or whenever and it will graph it.  You do have to keep communicator on all the time for it to logs these values.

It will be interesting to see what you Volts are. I have seen nearly 400 VDC and mine is wound 116 turns.

We love to see you power curve when you get it figured out.  Haven't changed mine yet, but I'm sure it could make more power if it was tweaked better.

Thanks for sharing.

Rob L

[jarrod9155]

The highest volts loaded I have seen dc was around 170 and unloaded 210 vdc I let It take off for about 5 minutes unloaded to watch what it would do then turned the dump load on to make sure everthing would work as before . This generator is putting out .85 volts ac per rpm on 2 legs of the 3 phase . Nekit your generator still has more square inches of magnets than this one I have built so I would think you will see more volts . I wish I could of found some 1.5 by 3 , 3/4 thick mags that wouldnt include a small loan from the bank but the best I found was 1 by 2 , 3/4 thick for 17.95 a piece at 40 of them that still was hard to take !! . So the highest I would predict for volts is maybe 300 volts dc from this new generator . Having the stators resistance down to 1.1ohms per leg is probly the biggest improvement and retaining decent volts per rpm . I to have used Rob Beckers magic program for a basic power curve  but have found that the tsr run a little faster than I would like to see, Rob does say that it is only a starting point so what I like to do is add 10 % to the load or volts and watch the  hz or rpms  and furling to tune from there . When I get home tonight I will load up the current mppt table .

Jarrod
   Maine

[ChrisOlson]

Big thanks to Chris too for showing us the way of this design, that guy is doing some pretty special stuff.

I can't take credit for that.  Gordon Proven used that concept long before I did.  Gordon just had his turbines facing the other way.
--
Chris

[jarrod9155]

I agree that the proven design has inspired some of my ideas sad they went belly up .

[ChrisOlson]

Yeah, I've always wanted to build a downwinder, and that just may be my next project.  This new turbine went in 9 miles southwest of us back in December.  It's an Endurance turbine, built in Canada.  I can't tell if it's a G or E model, but I think it's a G model 35 kW.

It's a really nice running turbine, and very quiet running.  It has a geared induction generator in it.





Every time I drive by it I keep thinking, "I could build one of those".   
--
Chris