Author Topic: 25 to 30 foot diameter turbine (Read 32352 times)

methanolcat · « **Reply #66 on:** October 26, 2011, 10:49:48 PM »

Thank you Janne,

   I watched all 5 and enjoyed them all, the shear size of that beast is just astounding. Mine won't be quite that tall or have enough room for me to stand in the top but that is just amazing.

   Update: I have some new pics of the gearbox, this whole project is taking much longer than I had wanted, isn't that how it goes. I worked 7 days a week most all summer and I don't usually want to stay after work and work on my own project but sometimes I do.

   Most people aren't going to see or realize the amount of hours required to make such things but just let me say there was many hours spent making what you see in the following pictures.

   Here are 3 pictures for this board, I don't want to clutter up the board with too many pictures so here is a link to all the pictures I have on the gearbox so far.

http://s1186.photobucket.com/albums/z367/methanolcat/home%20built%20wind%20turbine%20gearbox/

   Also in another album I have on photobucket there is a short clip of my 15 footer flying.

Matt

12AX7 · « **Reply #67 on:** October 26, 2011, 11:48:56 PM »

Matt...

WOW!

nice work!

Dave B · « **Reply #68 on:** October 26, 2011, 11:57:12 PM »

That is fantastic work, thank you for posting your progress. That is going to be a very special machine when you are finished. Dave B.

SparWeb · « **Reply #69 on:** October 27, 2011, 12:12:08 AM »

Spectacular! I've seen helicopters with smaller trannies than that.

oztules · « **Reply #70 on:** October 27, 2011, 03:55:23 AM »

It never ceases to amaze me how nicely you build stuff Matt...... just beautiful!

............oztules

Janne · « **Reply #71 on:** October 27, 2011, 04:12:14 AM »

Matt,

That gearbox looks just great! I'm sure it will last a long time, and compared to the chain drive I have much more faith in that design working!

Keep us posted on the progress.

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #72 on:** October 27, 2011, 02:39:25 PM »

Quote from: Janne on October 27, 2011, 04:12:14 AM

That gearbox looks just great! I'm sure it will last a long time, and compared to the chain drive I have much more faith in that design working!

Janne, you don't understand geared drives very well. That transmission is an Eaton Fuller Roadranger twin-countershaft. They are heavy duty transmissions due to the torque loads being split between dual countershafts in both the speed and the air shift range and gear splitter sections of the transmission. They can handle tremendous torque loads - the 13 speed Roadranger in my Freightliner will handle 2,100 lb-ft of input torque continuously from a Cummins N14 running at peak torque at 1,250 rpm. But the reason they will do this is not because of the type of gears used - it's how the torque loads are split up and handled by the various parts of the case and shafts.

The reason oil bath roller chain final drives are used in some of the most severe duty final dive applications in modern engineering, such as motor graders and skid loaders, is because of the way the roller chain drive transmits loads to the gearcase. The gearcase is under compression load and backlash is not an issue. Gear-to-gear drives place the case under expansion loads and backlash is critical. Those Fuller transmission gears will not last unless the proper gear contact pattern is adhered to. If you examine them you'll see they are cut very special (in fact, the Fuller transmission's dual countershafts have to be timed to make sure the proper teeth are in contact in the geartrain).

You have to do what we call "rolling a contact pattern" on those gears using Prussian Blue to make sure you have the right contact on the teeth in the gearset, similar to setting up a hypoid gearset in a drive axle. Failure to do so will cause them to gall and your gearset won't last one month.

I've been working on and with, and rebuilding, those Roadranger transmissions for going on 30 years, and there's not too much about them I don't know. One that's rebuilt and set up by somebody who doesn't know what they're doing is what we call a "howling success". One that's built by somebody who knows their stuff will take incredible abuse and run 2 million miles between overhauls in a Class 8 rig. Removing pieces from one and attempting to use them in a wind turbine gear drive is questionable unless you pay strict attention to the backlash and contact pattern on the gearset. Otherwise it won't last and you'll get filings in the oil, which then get into the bearings, and it sort of goes downhill from there.

I got a 12115 (15 speed) Fuller laying on my shop floor that came out of a Pete dump truck with six and a quarter Cat in it. The owner had chipped it up to 2,500 lbs of torque and 800+ hp with a "power tuner". He got in a hard pull and blew both countershafts in the range section right thru the case. I would've like to see that explosion when she went - it put a 2" hole in the right side fuel tank. LOL!
--
Chris

methanolcat · « **Reply #73 on:** October 27, 2011, 06:07:06 PM »

Chris,

I can't and won't speak for Janne as to whether or not he understands geared drives very well, but I do understand them and I don't doubt what you say as long as you don't doubt that I know what I am doing.

I understand the gears causing expansion on the case (them trying to move away from each other), no worries there as my case is not cast and is in fact made from what I would say is kinda overkill, 1/2 inch thick steel plate, the gear teeth would shear off before the case was ever harmed, that I am sure of.

As far as the gear tooth contact patch goes, I have done my homework, found the tooth pitch and the required distance to set the gears apart, I understand this isn't guess work and longevity depends on it, thats one reason I said most aren't going to realize the amount of time and work that went into building this.

I also understand how those transmissions work in that the power is split between the two outside sets of gears otherwise they would never be able to hold up like they do in a semi. I am not using them like they do in the original transmission but I am not going to using a fraction of the torque these gears were designed for, so no worries there either.

Without using multiple sets of sprockets and chains theres no other way I could have achieved the same 14.44 - 1 ratio. After researching sprockets and chains when I first started this project they are not as simple as one might think either, things like minimum diameter sprockets for larger size chains as well as maximum surface foot the larger chains could run without excessive chain and sprocket wear. Those 2 factors right there drove me away from them real quick. To even come close to 14.44 - 1 the chain gear box would have been much larger to follow the minimum sprocket diameter rules. I'm not saying what you did was bad or wrong in any way.

I've been a tool and die maker for almost 30 years, cut more gears than you have probably ever seen. I understand the circular pitch, circular thickness, pitch surface, flank, fillet, face, top land, bottom land, face width, chordal pitch, pressure angle, pitch circle........I could go on but I think you get the point.

Thanks to those who gave comments and appreciate what they see, there will be more pictures as I go on with this project.

Matt

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #74 on:** October 27, 2011, 10:09:05 PM »

Quote from: methanolcat on October 27, 2011, 06:07:06 PM

As far as the gear tooth contact patch goes, I have done my homework

I'm sure you did your homework on the gears. Just like you've spent 30 years as a tool and die maker, I spent 20 in the heavy duty drivetrain and engine business as a mechanical engineer before I retired to the old family farm and took it over.

I was just reading along on this, as I love geared turbines, until I saw you using Fuller gears. Then the alarms went off because those are matched gearsets, just like a hypoid gearset.

I'll send you a PM and explain it.
--
Chris

XXLRay · « **Reply #75 on:** October 28, 2011, 03:37:22 AM »

Unfortunatly I cannot get the subtitles working even wenn I click on "CC". Is it because I am using a German youtube interface? Is there a way to switch the interface to english?

Madscientist267 · « **Reply #76 on:** October 28, 2011, 07:53:12 PM »

I may be way off my rocker with this, but had a somewhat similar problem with google recently (running knoppix), and the solution was not immediately obvious, even though it was very simple -

Change the domain to .com instead of .de?

Purely hypothetical, I'm nowhere near my puter ATM (using my phone), but it came to mind...

Hope it helps.

Steve

XXLRay · « **Reply #77 on:** November 01, 2011, 05:13:59 AM »

No, I made sure I am not logged in to youtube and that the domain is .com. This does not work at least for Opera as browser. I was able to switch the user interface to english when using Safari but it also sais that there is no caption available.

Janne · « **Reply #78 on:** November 01, 2011, 08:02:30 AM »

Quote from: XXLRay on November 01, 2011, 05:13:59 AM

No, I made sure I am not logged in to youtube and that the domain is .com. This does not work at least for Opera as browser. I was able to switch the user interface to english when using Safari but it also sais that there is no caption available.

I just tried switching the youtube to german interface, and the subtitles worked ok on firefox. Mayby see if your flash player needs updating, or also try it on firefox?

XXLRay · « **Reply #79 on:** November 02, 2011, 04:25:51 AM »

Something seems to be wrong with my MacOs installation. Subtitles work fine on Linux with Opera as browser. Just don't mind about it any more.

bvan1941 · « **Reply #80 on:** February 20, 2012, 06:08:16 PM »

methonolcat,
Maybe I missed your updates on the 25-30' wind turbine project. The work done so far was professional and excellent.
(I can't be the only one eager to hear from you )
Bill

methanolcat · « **Reply #81 on:** February 22, 2012, 05:36:21 PM »

bvan1941,

No recent updates lately, sorry. I have been working 7 days a week for several months now, starting to see light at the end of that tunnel now though (hopefully not more than another month or so).

Then I can get back to work on this project again, believe me, I hate not getting to work on it.

I did add more full size pictures here, not sure if you saw those or not.

http://s1186.photobucket.com/profile/methanolcat/index

Matt

bvan1941 · « **Reply #82 on:** February 22, 2012, 06:17:57 PM »

Methanolcat,
just looked at your pix's. Holy CRAP -- Tell me that's not your shop! Can't say here what I think of guys like you that have all those toys to make projects with. I'll just think it's "somebody's business" to keep DEPRESSION AWAY. LOL

Keep working on that project, looking for updates.
Best of luck,
Bill

methanolcat · « **Reply #83 on:** May 20, 2012, 08:14:54 PM »

bvan1941,

It's not my shop, but where I work. It's a nice shop though, I have 2 bosses, 50/50 owners and one is getting to retire and wants me to buy his half and make payments to him for 10 years until I have it paid off, not a bad deal but recently have decided to move so I don't think I'm gonna buy his half, .....anyhow. Sorry for taking so long to get back to your comment.

Matt

methanolcat · « **Reply #84 on:** May 20, 2012, 09:26:56 PM »

I have tried to post this 3 times with 6 images and keep getting an error, all within board limits, so I have put the images on photobucket at this link http://s1186.photobucket.com/profile/methanolcat/index

UPDATE:

I have been working on the gear box for about the last month and now have it done and did some testing, here are some of the pictures I have.

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Note the through hole in the main shaft, its 3/4 through (over 24 inches) and both ends bored out for linear bearings which is for the pitch control, the fly ball governor will mount on the rear of the gear box and use a 5/8 rod through the main shaft to control the pitch of the blades.

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I have also started on the main frame work that will tie everything together and the main pivot bearing as well (which I am also making, buying one would kill this project $$)

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There are many more full size pictures here as well.

http://s1186.photobucket.com/profile/methanolcat/index

I also have a video of the gearbox chucked up in a lathe, with lathe running at 200 rpm's, that puts the output shaft running at 2880 rpm's.

I ran it for 2 hours with nothing but good results, no overheating or abnormal noises, oil pressure runs about 7 psi and is more of a clogged filter indicator, I put the gauge in between the pump and the filter so a higher reading would show a filter needing changed.

The video is here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7gE5x8Z6o

I won't be getting any more done very soon, I am having hernia surgery this Thursday, so I am taking a week off work and then once back I will take it easy for a while. It shouldn't slow me down too much though, there are still lots of small parts I need to make, like a fly ball governor, pitch control parts and drive shaft yokes.

Matt

zvizdic · « **Reply #85 on:** May 20, 2012, 10:27:22 PM »

This is amassing project !

Planing and making must take a lot off time and I hope it last and work as good as it locks.

In my opinion you are #1 DIY windmill maker on this forum period .............

Thanks for sheering !

Watt · « **Reply #86 on:** May 20, 2012, 10:50:18 PM »

As mentioned, very nice work. Awesome looking and I bet the performance will match the work.

I wonder what power is required to produce the lubricant pressure and if lowering it to nearly nothing will help. In no way am I picking, just a wonder, that's all.

Nice job.

methanolcat · « **Reply #87 on:** May 21, 2012, 05:07:45 PM »

zvizdic,

Thanks and it does take a lot of time designing and planning to make everything fit and work properly, but in the end its something I can be proud of and with minimal maintenance it should last me the rest of my life.

"In my opinion you are #1 DIY windmill maker on this forum period ............."

I don't know about that I have seen some pretty good work, but it mostly has to do with what tools are available to each person, in my case the sky is the limit on machinery, if I had only the tools in my garage to work with it wouldn't be anything near what I have built so far.

Watt,

Thanks as well.

I don't know that there is a way lower the oil pressure any further, I say that because the filter is what is causing the pressure, most if not all oil filters now a days have what is called a "anti- drain back valve" basically a rubber ring that the oil has to push open to get through, a "one way valve" and then of course the restriction of the filter element itself causes some pressure as well.

The "anti- drain back valve" was added to oil filters because some filters are mounted horizontally and the oil would drain back out of the filter when the engine wasn't running and would need a short time to refill once the engine was started again, all while the engine is not getting oil until the filter gets full again, and we know that's not a good thing.

I have a 3/8 pick up line to the pump, out of the pump and into the filter with 3/8 line, from filter to distribution manifold with 3/8 line, then from manifold to 4 places inside gear box with 1/4 line to oil bearings. The 1/4 lines are all open on the ends with no restrictors or nozzles of any kind.

I would about bet money that if the filter was taken out of the system that the pressure gauge would read nothing or almost nothing.

As far as the amount of power consumed by the pump, I wouldn't think it would be very much, I tested that pump with a battery powered drill, pumping oil and it didn't try to slow the drill down, but that was not with a filter involved, so......I still can't imagine it being very much, I'm going to have an excessive amount of power to have to find something to do with and if it cost me a couple hundred watts of power to run the pump I would be ok with that.

Thanks again guys,

Matt

methanolcat · « **Reply #88 on:** May 22, 2012, 06:07:16 PM »

attempt at uploading pics again.

methanolcat · « **Reply #89 on:** May 22, 2012, 06:11:17 PM »

got one, now maybe the others.

if admin or someone could insert these above, or just leave here is fine too.

Matt

12AX7 · « **Reply #90 on:** May 22, 2012, 09:37:25 PM »

Wholly Krap!

SparWeb · « **Reply #91 on:** May 23, 2012, 01:05:39 AM »

Matt,
It all looks cool. Detroit "big iron", humvee chassis, hair on its chest, and everything.

Your pain is our gain, because while you're layed-up for a week, you have nothing to do but send us pictures. Thanks!

Walk slowly; get well soon.

methanolcat · « **Reply #92 on:** June 09, 2012, 12:46:28 AM »

Sorry SparWeb, my week of being layed-up consisted of out of state camping, been back to work for a week now and got some more work done.

UPDATE:

Here are a few pictures of the yaw bearing and the yaw gearbox and yaw motor. I'm not going to be using a tail on this big monster.

I had to make the yaw bearing because I couldn't find anything strong enough for the job in my price range. It's done though and works great with no excess slop in it.

These other pictures show the main gear box attached to the main frame and the yaw gear box and yaw motor mounted. It is sitting in the back of my S-10 pick up taking up the whole length of the truck bed, the truck is squatting pretty good too from the weight.

The yaw gear box is a Boston 60-1 worm gear reducer hooked to a servo motor I had to heavily modify to fit in the space I had available.

That's about it for now, I will keep working on it and keep the pictures coming as I go.

Matt

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Author Topic: 25 to 30 foot diameter turbine (Read 32352 times)

Watt