Author Topic: Wild AC  (Read 4372 times)

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artv

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Wild AC
« on: October 05, 2011, 07:29:45 PM »
Hi All,..I was searching and haven't found any postes about just using the AC directly from the genny,...some sort of device to calm down the AC it's putting out. Since the AC out fluxuates (wild AC),.... you can't use it ....as direct feed that is.......rectify, store in battery(s) ,and change it back to usable AC.........I think I got it right.... :-\

Maybe there is a box that does this :o??..........thanks for reading......artv

rossw

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Re: Wild AC
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2011, 08:45:27 PM »
Hi All,..I was searching and haven't found any postes about just using the AC directly from the genny,...some sort of device to calm down the AC it's putting out. Since the AC out fluxuates (wild AC),.... you can't use it ....as direct feed that is.......rectify, store in battery(s) ,and change it back to usable AC.........I think I got it right.... :-\

Maybe there is a box that does this :o??..........thanks for reading......artv

Depends on your intended use.

For example, Zubbly used quite substantial amounts of "wild AC" from his turbines into resistive elements to heat his home. Lots of other people use the "wild AC" to preheat water etc. This works because all you're interested in at the end of the day, is watts.

More delicate equipment - like your desktop computer for example - wants power within a particular frequency range, and within a particular voltage range.
Your average desktop computer also won't draw enough power to tame a mill in a strong wind - so you're at serious risk of a (dangerous) runaway.

Most people want power at a time of their choice, not the winds. Thus, "banking" the power in batteries, and either using it directly from the batteries later, and/or converting it back to AC for more convenient use is the only practical option for most of us.

artv

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Re: Wild AC (grid tie inverters)
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2011, 03:26:59 PM »
Thanks for the reply Ross...
I've been reading some about these grid-tie inverters(I'm not sure how they work), they don't use a battery bank?...just feed the fluxuating AC directly to the grid?
If the wind speed is rangeing from 10 to 30 miles/hr...the AC out is going to be all over the place....does the inverter smooth it out(to a constant 240VAC), or does the grid not care what kind of voltage levels it sees'???

Also "Zubbly used wild AC into resistive elements"....are they just like the elements out of an electric oven???
The big elements (inside the oven) use 240,...the ones on top (the burners) use 120,....So if your mill was putting out say 600VAC it would cook the elements??? Or would it not because the windings in the stator would not be able to push that many amps??...Unless of course you used really heavy guage windings??....Like to just use the wind when it's available....skip the batteries and everything that goes with them..........artv

rossw

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Re: Wild AC (grid tie inverters)
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2011, 06:53:34 PM »
Thanks for the reply Ross...
I've been reading some about these grid-tie inverters(I'm not sure how they work), they don't use a battery bank?...just feed the fluxuating AC directly to the grid?
If the wind speed is rangeing from 10 to 30 miles/hr...the AC out is going to be all over the place....does the inverter smooth it out(to a constant 240VAC), or does the grid not care what kind of voltage levels it sees'???

The inverter doesn't so much "smooth it out" and "use what it can". It (internally) converts the wild AC to DC, then converts the DC to AC at the right frequency, phase and voltage to stick it back into the grid. The more "wild AC" is available, the harder it "pushes" power back into the grid.

Quote
Also "Zubbly used wild AC into resistive elements"....are they just like the elements out of an electric oven???
The big elements (inside the oven) use 240,...the ones on top (the burners) use 120,....So if your mill was putting out say 600VAC it would cook the elements??? Or would it not because the windings in the stator would not be able to push that many amps??...Unless of course you used really heavy guage windings??....Like to just use the wind when it's available....skip the batteries and everything that goes with them..........artv

I don't recall what elements Zubbly used exactly, but they would be *IN EFFECT* just like those in the oven, yes.
The output from the mill might make 600 VAC *UNLOADED* but when you load it up, it'll drop. The whole system will come into some sort of equilibrium - you load it up more, the prop slows down. If it slows down too far you get less output power which allows the prop to speed up, making more power... and so on. If you had a constant wind speed, changing the load will change the prop RPM - the system will settle down. If your load is FAR TOO BIG, the prop will slow to a crawl and the blades will stall. (Thats why shorting out the turbine can be used as a brake). Problem is, if you get a big enough wind, the resistance of the alternator means the prop will turn and make power - that has to be dissipated in the alternator windings - which heat up and eventually burn out - then there's no load and the thing self-destructs.

artv

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Re: Wild AC
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2011, 10:37:43 PM »
Thanks Ross ,...the inverter seems like it's doing alot of work..AC-DC-AC....

the load is, "FAR TOO BIG"....for the size of the windings in the stator ...correct ??? :-\.........

Also I put a little fan on the AC output and it held the voltage pretty steady between 50 -60VAC ,with a big gap on the coil,....
but ,the fan worked before on ~35VAC (on the open pole)......
The 50-60VAC was a single coil,...the ~35VAC was 24 coils..........more wire(capacity)........better output??.......
the farther I go the deeper it gets ;D.........artv

wooferhound

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Re: Wild AC
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 12:56:45 PM »