push-trailer update

[Norm]

It was a long time ago....probably about 30 years ago and it was so
simple....course it only lasted about a week ....but I the kids mini-bike
no motor....wrapped a hunk of chain around a large washer linked together
welded the washer to an old starter shaft and then it meshed with the
rear sproket just like a gear......old junk battery.... wood pedal grounded
the negative cable to the frame to turn on the motor 2hrs. charging the
junk battery made for about 5 minutes of fun ! .....the chain gear as
could be expected lasted about a week.....was fun while it lasted 'tho !

[REdiculous]

I'm hoping my toy lasts more than a week..it's about a 20 mile round trip to the nearest store I can bike to so I'd like it to be pretty reliable. So far so good now that I've got the chains staying on more often than not.

I found a 5a charger for a little over $50 I'll probably get next month. I'll get another 20ah battery as well probably. Using a 5a charger I think I'll lose 15-20w instead of 60w like I was with the bulb. It'll still kind of suck to lose 20w whenever the inverter is on but that's not too terrible compared to the bulb. I got to thinking that a charger might keep the voltage artificially high too...so less "perceived" voltage drop when accelerating, perhaps?

I improved the chain alignment again today. The draw is down to about 15-20w (the inverter showed between 10-20w @3sec intervals) in order to spin the wheel (no-load) at min speed. The inverter may be including its 6w draw as well but I'm sure it wasn't counting the bulb....with nothing (or a light) on, the inverter shows 0-10w output which is about what it draws idling if you average it based on the 3sec interval.

Oh, if I hook the motor to a meter while the trailer is on the bench I can spin the wheel by hand and get 20v or so without much effort..pretty neat. I think this means if I wire it right I can turn it into a pedgen pretty quick-like if I can prop up my bike's back tire and get it to drive the trailer's wheel...I dunno..it might be worth trying..

I still need to get good pictures but it's been such crummy weather lately..I hope it's better where you are.

[REdiculous]

☂☁☂☁☂☁☂☁☂☁☂☁☂
I put the controller in a small nesquik container instead of the cardboard box it came in. Much nicer feel and there's enough room for a little fan if I need it. I got the nuts and chain to put my crank together today so the bike is ridable now...except it's raining. I also flipped the neck/handlebars back around so it should handle a little better.

I didn't think about it until after 2pm, so I didn't get a chance to talk to the inverter folks about a switch...timezones.. I'll try to remember to call tomorrow before lunch. Not that I have the money for it now, but I will at some point.

I found a little 12v blower for inflating air mattresses but I'm not sure where I wanna put it or how I want to power it yet. I've also got a couple muffin fans that I could use instead, or as well. Heat wasn't an issue with one battery and a 2 mile run but 3 batteries and 6 miles might warm it up...

I'm putting off the fans until I can get another battery or two..there's no point yet since everything might change. If I can find some decent bolts laying around I'll see if I can't get the frame support added on the chain side.

I'm still looking for a decent box for a battery. If I can find something good enough then I can kill two birds with one stone. Opposite the tensioner I could mount a box and tie it into the yellow (/jackshaft) forks. An ammo can might work best if I can find one...not sure of the sizes. I'm not sure I can really fit 3 batteries so I might get one, see if I can fit it somehow and then get another if that spot opposite the tensioner is still open.

As soon as it stops raining I've gotta take it out and see how fast I can go. yup yup

[REdiculous]

I beat the rain! Pedaling even a little seems to help tremendously and the cruise control is nice. It seemed to adjust to my input really well so maintaing 15mph (say) can mean little/no pedaling or I could work at it and use a lot less power.

With the charger instead of the light bulb it's a little fidgety at low speed but it can still easily start me from a stand-still on flat. If I pedal just a little then I can still accelerate well at the super low end, and at about 7mph or so (1k rpm for the motor) it feels like the power doubles. I know it's not really doubling but it gets real smooth and it feels like it really just wants to go at that point...like the turbo kicked in.

I didn't get to check the top speed but it seemed fast to me. I think I could've gone faster if there had been some weight on the front of the bike. Flipping the handlebars/neck the right way helped but it's still pretty spooky to control with one hand when it's movin' quick..it could be better. I gotta do something there.

Pulling the trailer without assist was pretty easy..like having a 55lb backpack, minus the extreme back-ache. The single skinny tire on the trailer must help a lot since I've never pulled a 2 wheel trailer that was as easy with half the load.


Oh, I'm rethinking my control scheme about now. I'm starting to realize the speeds that might be involved and I don't really like having to take my hand off the bars to control the motor. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do...I want it to have as little impact on the bike as possible and it needs to come off quick...

I may end up welding a nut to the handlebars. Then I can make up a little wire basket for the controller and weld a small bolt to it so it screws on. I'll need longer cords though and a way to keep 'em safe and out of the way.

The other option is making it motor/assist only when the crank is turning, finding (/hacking together..I dunno..) a 10k throttle or I could try RC control. The controller will accept 0-1.4 or 0-2.8v to control the speed when it's set to either 90v or 180v so there's that to work with. RC would be best but I think it'd be harder to pull off well. I dunno..lotsa options. later

[REdiculous]

I just got the stiffener in place on the tensioner side. I put a good bead on the end of a rod so it wouldn't slide through the hole in the wheel support, cut the rod to size and welded a bolt to the other end. I inherited a bunch of old bike brake/derailleur parts that don't go to anything so I cut one down to size and welded it to the forks...done.

I don't know why I put it off for so long since it only took maybe 15mins...it seems to help a lot. later

[REdiculous]

So the trailer pushed 400lbs while I was towing an upright skateboarder and I took it down a crowded bike path in town..no problem...though I almost got run over by a toddler driving one of those big plastic/cheap electric cars..he must've been drunk 'cause he was all over the "road"!

Range is up to at about 4-6 miles, depending...6-8 miles is more typical since I still like to pedal occasionally. I loaned all my money out though so I didn't get the gear I wanted...maybe next month. later

[comp]

is there pics of this ?

[Bruce S]

is there pics of this ?

Comp;
Small favor, look/read through the entire thread before you ask these questions.

While most everyone here is very helpful, it would help ALL of us if you were to let us know what you are looking for.

IF your looking to learn, you've come to the best there is, there's decades of knowledge in each of the different sections. Have a good long read, then let us know what you are looking for help with.

Cheers;
Bruce S
 

[comp]

is there pics of this ?

Comp;
Small favor, look/read through the entire thread before you ask these questions.

While most everyone here is very helpful, it would help ALL of us if you were to let us know what you are looking for.

IF your looking to learn, you've come to the best there is, there's decades of knowledge in each of the different sections. Have a good long read, then let us know what you are looking for help with.

Cheers;
Bruce S
 

yes i read ,, i need to build a push cart to move things around outside ,,3 blown disc's
yes i have a lot to read i understand that but a few pics help me grasp things a little better

[Bruce S]

is there pics of this ?

Comp;
Small favor, look/read through the entire thread before you ask these questions.
While most everyone here is very helpful, it would help ALL of us if you were to let us know what you are looking for.
IF your looking to learn, you've come to the best there is, there's decades of knowledge in each of the different sections. Have a good long read, then let us know what you are looking for help with.
Cheers;
Bruce S

yes i read ,, i need to build a push cart to move things around outside ,,3 blown disc's
yes i have a lot to read i understand that but a few pics help me grasp things a little better

Pics are good.
IF you will, while reading through these posts. Look at the bottom of the older posts, if pictures where posted and they are showing up full size, you will see a file with an extension of jpg on them. Click on that and you will be able to open the pictures.
The mods on here are working to make sure the pictures are viewable  without this need, but in the early days of the software move and short training sessions a great many have slipped by.
Bare with us and open the jpgs for now.

Bruce S

[kurt]

OK i fixed all the photos in this thread so they display in the posts you know what they say "squeaky wheel gets the grease". it would be an imposable task for me to go back and look through every post from the time of the software conversion to present and fix every photo but i do fix the ones that get my attention. but like Bruce said if there is an attachment at the bottom of a post but nothing displaying  you can still view it. you mite have to download the photo to your computer to view it depending on what browser you are using but you can view it.

[comp]

thanks now i can see i need something a little different

[David HK]

The following website address leads to an interesting but quite old form of push trailer bicycle made in Italy in 1893.

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/TRANSPORT/motorcycle/motorcycle.htm

David in HK

[REdiculous]

It's been awhile since I posted so I figured I'd give an update....still breathing...

My brother decided he would try to use my trailer to power the welder while I wasn't around and he left it in the rain for a few hours. Obviously it's not powerful enough for that and he popped the tire w/ hot slag. Thankfully the electronics still work and he didn't do any really expensive damage. He should've known it wouldn't work since he knows that it's barely powerful enough to burn two pieces of bread w/ the toaster (been there, did that). So I guess I get to replace the tube and tire at some point.

Anyway, since it attaches to my bike at seat post height it's a bit wobbly at speed and it's such a heavy beast with 'poor' range...so now I'm thinking about repurposing the thing...

With the 9:1 gearing already in place, if I can spin the wheel up to 80rpm I should see about 14v from the motor -- sounds about right for a big-n-nasty drag vawt. Maybe.

[Norm]

Ah Brothers....I was lucky/unlucky (dependending on your point of view) not to have one, a younger
sister was enough for me....
  Well anyhow I've been thinking of something similar ....a treadmill motor hooked
up with a ratio that would charge a 12 volt battery when you pedaled over 10mph.
cut in speed with blocking diode....now you put in a by-pass switch....when you go over
10mph you override the motor.....stop pedaling or slow down and the motor helps.

from experience on a smaller scale ....it works.
Norm

[REdiculous]

I suppose I could turn it into a pedgen instead but I haven't got a place to set it up. That would be the easiest thing to do though since I could just drive the trailer wheel w/ my bike wheel - would need 2 stands to lift the bike and trailer off the ground is all. The thing is that the gearing on the trailer is pretty stiff since it's setup to push the bike (over bumpy gravel) - a stationary (/purpose-built) pedgen could get away with looser chains = less resistance to pedaling.

Still not sure what I would use the power for, either way. A 1000w inverter isn't much to work with and the battery capacity is pretty minimal.

I'm gonna hold off on doing anything to it for awhile I think. I may modify the bike frame and trailer so the hitch is closer to the ground instead.

[REdiculous]

Tore the trailer apart - game over on that idea.

I moved the electricals to a pocket bike instead. I gotta turn the motor shaft down to fit the little sprocket - that's the big thing that's left to do.

I was able to fit more capacity on the pocket bike than on the old trailer, oddly enough. Since the pocket bike has a 10" wheel instead of the 20" that the old trailer had, I can get away with less of a reduction and with the #25 chain instead of BMX, I can do it in one step instead of 2. Range and efficiency should go up a fair amount I think.

I'm pretty excited. 

[REdiculous]

Oh, I'm making a pedgen too. It can attach to the pocket bike, turning it into a recumbent ebike (if it's ridable! lol). I'm using the 24v 250w brush motor from the pocket bike as the generator. I've got a 1:7.27 ratio on it now and saw 14.5v spinning it as fast as I could by hand so I'm thinking 1:10 might be the right ratio to shoot for. Maybe 1:12?

And then besides that, I've got a new trailer frame mostly cut and ready to weld up. It won't be powered though.

Pics and vid soon.

[REdiculous]

Here's a couple pics...

This is an older pic but it shows the basic idea. The pedgen lifts off the ground and secures to the pocket bike w/ a chain, besides being connected at the rear dropouts. The handles on the pedgen are easily removed for better ground clearance. The pedgen is totally removable.


Here's the motor side, which I just finished...


[near the center at the bottom you can barely see the original support for the plastic body work. That shows the stupid little compressor won't affect the ground clearance. ]

The bolt going through the skateboard wheel mounts to a slot I made in the face of the motor, which keeps it square to, and a fixed-distance from, the motor sprocket. The skateboard wheel is free-spinning, there's no groove to guide the chain, and there's no spring involved - just remember to double-nut it so the skateboard wheel doesn't come off from road vibrations. The tensioner on the push trailer was a constant source of issues so this should be a huge improvement (hopefully wasting less power too).

All that's really left is wiring and then it'll be ready to test ride. Assuming that goes well (..it snowed so dunno how I'm gonna test it..) I'll tear it apart again and get it ready for final assembly. I need to get the welding gas refilled so I can do the little bit of welding on the pocket bike (a few tacks and maybe an extra support brace if I get ambitious), and then the big welding chore, the trailer. later

[REdiculous]

Taped the batteries on and got it all wired up. I made a simplistic throttle from an old brake handle, a potentiometer, a spring and a couple hose clamps - unfortunately, I can only turn it about 1/4 of the way so top speed is a bit limited for now.

With the pack sitting around 12.6v I was able to cruise around the house though. I didn't turn the power up very far, and the acceleration is turned down as well. Even tuned low, it pulls me from a stand-still no problem and once it's past 3mph it really wants to start going. When it clears up outside I'll turn it up a bunch and see what happens.

[REdiculous]

I gotta secure the motor a little better, since it moved when I took it in the snow and it threw the chain. I gotta say I got to ride for a good minute first and it was a blast! Will get more pics and a video when it's working correctly.

[REdiculous]

I was able to torque the motor down a little better so it's less likely to move, so I turned up the acceleration and power a bit. Guessing not over 500w yet, but getting there. Me+bike weigh in at 210lbs now and it starts me from a dead-stop no problem, even if I drag my feet. I guess it's progress.

[REdiculous]

Here's the first vid.