Author Topic: Pex with Aluminium in it  (Read 4151 times)

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Somdin

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Pex with Aluminium in it
« on: November 02, 2011, 10:58:25 AM »
Scored a partial roll of 3/4 Pex pipe with an aluminium layer built into the wall of the pipe

its plastic on the inside and out and aluminium in the middle

my question is would this be better used as a sollar collector for hot water or as a heat exchanger for the hot water
Im thinking of starting a drain back system like Gary has on Build it solar and this looks like it would work well

Just want some opinions on which application would be better

thanks
 

kenputer

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Re: Pex with Aluminium in it
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2011, 08:53:24 AM »
Thats sounds to be KITEC pipe which hasa large lawsuit taking place at this time.

kenl

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Re: Pex with Aluminium in it
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2011, 08:31:27 PM »
Gary seems to think it has good heat transfer so take your pick. I'm using pex-al-pex for my collectors and was considering it for the exchanger coil also. Figure it can't hurt.

 kenny
seemed like a good idea at the time

XeonPony

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Re: Pex with Aluminium in it
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2011, 01:10:45 PM »
The stuff is made for hydronic heating systems, the aluminium is an oxygen barrier to prevent corrotion of the heat exchangers.
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richhagen

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Re: Pex with Aluminium in it
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2011, 07:54:51 AM »
Well, there are three methods to transfer thermal energy, convection, conduction, and radiation. 

Convection is the transfer of  thermal energy by transferring mass which contains that energy.  An example would be the cold draft in the winter around a door, or the air moving in and out of a refrigerator when you open the door. 

Conduction is the transfer of thermal energy by the molecules actually bumping into each other and transfering energy until they reach a point of thermal equalibrium when all of the molecules contain the same kinetic energy.

Radiation as heat transfer is the emmission and absorption of photons containing energy which effect the kinetic energy of the molecules and particles.  An example of this would be a piece of iron held over a flame will become red hot, this is because it is emitting photons with enough energy to be in the red part of the spectrum.  If you were to heat it hotter you would see its color change as more higher frequency (and hence higher enery) light is emitted as it heats.  Everything radiates and absorbs photons to some extent, although at normal room temperature the energy contained in these photons is below the energy level that our human eyes are able to see.  Another example would be the warmth that you percieve when you walk out into the sunlight.

These are the only mechanisms by which thermal energy is transferred that we know of.

Now in the case of your Pex tubing, hopefully there will be no convection, as that would be a leak of some type into or out of the tubing.

As for conduction, the aluminum, if in a metalic form would likely conduct heat better than the plastic, whoever with two layer of plastic on each side, and unknown thicknesses of each layer it is difficult to assess the impact.  If the plastic layers in the tubing are thicker in the plastic/aluminum tubing than the single plastic layer in normal pex then the conduction shoould be less, if it is thinner then it would seem possible that it would be better.

That leaves radiation.  Metalic aluminum tends to be a reflector of infrared light and is hence used in thin plastic foil type thermal blankets and such.  It would also be rather reflective in the frequencies likely to be emitted by the normal temperature ranges of pex tubing in use, I would suspect that it would be worse at radiating and absorbing thermal energy.  It would be interesting to see views of both types of tubes carrying fluids at operating temperatures as viewed with a thermal camera.

I don't know how much any of this might help you, but these are my thoughts at the moment on the subject, Rich
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fabricator

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Re: Pex with Aluminium in it
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, 06:07:22 PM »
I can't imagine plastic being any good as a collector or an exchanger, seems like either aluminum tube or copper would be orders of magnitude better as both.
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Somdin

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Re: Pex with Aluminium in it
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 10:38:38 AM »
Those are some Great points for everyone
I think Ill have to do some testing once I get the coil and the pannel made before I get two carried away
thanks for the Info

kenl

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Re: Pex with Aluminium in it
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2011, 07:09:35 PM »
I can't imagine plastic being any good as a collector or an exchanger, seems like either aluminum tube or copper would be orders of magnitude better as both.

 Using pex-al-pex in my collectors I can heat 15 gal of water from 62f to 145f in about 2-2.5 hours and that's only using one 7x4 collector. I was quite pleased with the results. Alot of bang for the buck.

 kenny
seemed like a good idea at the time

Somdin

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Re: Pex with Aluminium in it
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2011, 10:45:12 AM »
do you have any pics of that collector
id love to see an example of what i could do with it

kenl

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Re: Pex with Aluminium in it
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2011, 09:31:31 AM »
Somdin,

 Here's some pics, you can find all the info for building these on GaryGary's builditsolar.com site. The collector cost about $150 to build total which for what it does isn't too bad. My system will not be a drain back since I use my roof space for PV,  the collectors will be down hill from my house. The first pic is the first one I built took 2-3 days waiting for paint to dry etc the other pics a the 2nd one I built. Much better looking then the first and maybe 6-8 hours toal to complete.

 kenny



seemed like a good idea at the time