Author Topic: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it. (Read 240303 times)

Steadfast · « **Reply #33 on:** March 19, 2012, 01:14:02 PM »

Right... OK... I will circular File the fuse and the grid tie...

I have no wind turbine weekend advancement to report because my seedlings grew MUCH faster than I thought they would.
Between them and the demanding wife I had to do this over the weekend instead.

I had to manually unload and spread two yards of 50/50 soil...

Then I had to till it all together and make rows with a hoe... My back is still aching!

snake21 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 19, 2012, 02:03:18 PM »

hello,i have an ametek 38vdc motor which i rarely see 6amps at 13.8v in 25mph wind.if your battery is 12.2v and you need 14.4 volts,the turbine will need to constant charge it for about 10 hours using ametek.not you are planning to use a grid tie inverter.i think it is a waste of money.what you can do instead,buy some more battery with the money that you will invest in the inverter.

i dont think that this motor will need furling mechanisms.i think that the rated amps is around 12.you will never see 12amps with this motor .i think furling is not necessary.

now concerning the pole and the blades,i think you will need to incline the motor a bit upwards so that in high gusts,the blades will not strike the pole.i lost 2 sets of pvc blades .

this is my personal experience and thought.hope it helps

tanner0441 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 19, 2012, 03:25:28 PM »

Hi

What height pole were you considering? Cause you gotta lotta trees there. The turbulence and drop in wind speed caused by all those trees will be a headache and a half. I have a poor site caused by trees and the proximity of a building, (my house) and my turbine will pirouette like a ballerina but sit for ages turning at below cuttin speed. On the otherhand when the wind comes from the east I have seen it output double its rated output.

I would recommend you spend a few evenings reading back through some of the posts people have put on here, and do the sums for your set up. Work out the drain on your batteries (we still don't know the Amp Hour rating of the batteries) and as your at 12V I would not even consider an inverter larger than 1000 Watt maximum, I think you will have problems keeping the input voltage at 12V at the inverter, and what I have read about golf cart batteries at 1 Kw 15 minutes is about all you going to get before the inverter shuts down on low voltage.

Living on grid it is all too easy just flicking a switch on and off when you like. Read some of the people who live off grid and see what size battery sets they use. A prime example is Chris Olsen, look at the work that goes into his set ups.

Brian.

Steadfast · « **Reply #36 on:** March 19, 2012, 03:57:33 PM »

30ft pole...

I thought it was alrerady going to be tough poering up 2 batteries at 12v.
Are you guys suggesting I buy more batteries and chain them to reach 24v? $:-\$

Steadfast · « **Reply #37 on:** March 19, 2012, 07:11:06 PM »

ok... I am not sure what you guys want to see..
Sooo, I went out to the shed and took some photos of my batteries....

here they are:

birdhouse · « **Reply #38 on:** March 19, 2012, 11:32:43 PM »

steadfast,
i'm not familiar with those batteries, so won't comment.

i think what most of us are getting at is that an ametek mill is a VERY small generator, especially in a poor wind location. basically we're trying to warn you that you may not see as much electricty come from this magical RE source as you think you might see.

IE: my 8.5' mill sits on a 70' tower in a fairly windy location. yes, i get quite a bit of juice from it, but if you're used to using grid power, you'd think the output was nill.

adam

Steadfast · « **Reply #39 on:** March 21, 2012, 12:15:06 PM »

Remember, this generator is not for powering up my home, I am using this generator to simply power up my small shed (off the grid), which I only use once a week. AND, as a secondary electricity source when *#%@ hits the fan. I also accept that my 2 batteries will be lucky to be filled in one week's time by my small Ametek motor. And, thanks to you guys, I fully expect that I will need to use my solar cell as a supplement power source to help fill up those batteries.
The 2500-6000 inverter is simply there to support bigger power tools.

I have another question:

Soon, I will have a 35 watt diode, which is to be attached between my battery and my turbine and this diode is there to keep the electricity flowing in only one direction (from the turbine into the battery).
As I understand it, without the diode, once my battery is higher powered than the turbine, the electricity will reverse, turning my 40VDC Ametek from a generator back into a motor, turning my turbine into a reverse spinning outdoor electric fan... right?...right!

OK... I would like to have a switch that stops my turbine so that I can safely lower it...

What would happen if I made a bypass circuit with a switch, which bypasses the Diode,
to effectively send battery power back up the line to the ametek motor, effectively stopping it like a break??? Perhaps the switch could be a dimmer switch to control the amount of reverse electricity?

Perhaps this could be also used as a "dump load"?

jlt · « **Reply #40 on:** March 21, 2012, 03:05:57 PM »

your motor should be wired to turn the same way the wind turns it. bypassing the diode will make it make it turn the same way without any wind.

tanner0441 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 21, 2012, 04:04:09 PM »

Hi

If you bi pass the diode the motor will become a big fan not a generator. Also you have a 35 Watt diode and a 2500 to 6000 Watt inverter. You do the sums... If you want to stop the motor then you short it out, (not when it's running flat out.)

I did not recognise the battery label but I think it may be 225 Ah. both batteries of 225 Ah in series.... 12 V at 225 Ah

You say you only want to run power tools for one day a week, you don't say what power tools.

Is it anything with big induction motors on?

If you pull the batteries down too much without being able to charge them back up quickly they will die.

You need to understand the basics of what you want to do.

Brian.

tanner0441 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 21, 2012, 04:05:12 PM »

Oooops 215 Ah

Steadfast · « **Reply #43 on:** March 21, 2012, 05:48:24 PM »

The powertools are standard handheld drills, skilsaws, small table saw, roughter... that sort of thing...

fabricator · « **Reply #44 on:** March 21, 2012, 06:35:40 PM »

I think you can pretty much rule those all out and hope for a few hours of light, sorry but those are the cold hard facts of wind, kWh are what count, you would be lucky to make one kWh in a week.

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #45 on:** March 21, 2012, 07:59:44 PM »

Quote from: Steadfast on March 19, 2012, 07:11:06 PM

ok... I am not sure what you guys want to see..
Sooo, I went out to the shed and took some photos of my batteries....

Those two batteries will store 1.16 kWh of usable power @ 90% inverter efficiency. That's enough power to 550 watts of lights for two hours. It's enough power to use a Skil Saw for about 20 minutes.

If you're going to run power tools you're going to need batteries - a lot more than what you got. Those two batteries would be suitable for running the lighting in your shed, maximum, assuming you have enough lighting in there to be able to see anything.

Your little turbine, on a 30 foot pole in the trees, will not even supply enough power to run the lighting in your shed, long term. I would forget the turbine and spend your money and time on solar instead. Your proposed wind turbine, if it were on a 70 foot tower to get away from ground turbulence, and assuming that would place it at least 30 feet above the highest trees or obstacles, has a maximum potential output of around 17 watts/hr @ 12 mph average wind speed. 12 mph average is a very windy site, and in the trees you're lucky to 6 mph average.

If you climb to the top of your turbine tower and take a look around, you should be able to see the horizon in every direction to even have a hope of it working.

It's nice to see folks enthused about a project like this. But from what I have read in this thread, and extensive personal experience with wind power systems, wind power is not going to work for you and you're wasting your time with it. Even solar power might be a challenge if you can't find a spot for panels where they are not shaded at some times during the day.

What I'm saying is that if you can't put up a wind turbine the right way, which means you're going to have more money in JUST the tower than you would spend on 1 kW of installed solar capacity, it's not worth doing it. And this appears to me to be one of those cases. Spend your money and time on solar panels and more batteries instead, and you will actually achieve your goal of being able to use your lighting and power tools in your shed once a week.
--
Chris

JW · « **Reply #46 on:** March 21, 2012, 08:36:30 PM »

Steadfast;

The members who are interacting with you are in up to there elbows with experience, If you can take this in stride. Fieldlines has many members over 7 years, your new to the discussion, but this is by no means a bad thing.

As always were looking for new ways to bring those who are new to the forum, up to speed. The older users have been around each other for years, so in time we learned of other's experience in time.

Imagine it this way, you've just jumped into a pool of very cold water

Steadfast · « **Reply #47 on:** March 21, 2012, 10:23:28 PM »

Well...the money is already spent...
all the parts are in...
im not one to back down.
So, the project will go on.

I suppose I will adapt along the way.
with your advice, make the best of it...

And leave the wind up to God...

JW · « **Reply #48 on:** March 21, 2012, 10:52:17 PM »

Quote from: Chris

Your little turbine, on a 30 foot pole in the trees, will not even supply enough power to run the lighting in your shed, long term.

"conversion" - If you raised your tower by an additional 30ft at 60ft you may get your perfomance goal... I think the mention of 20 minutes battery capacity is a good starting point. Personally if I was in your shoes I would use 8 flooded 6 volt batterys (series-parallel) and it will do wonders for your storage capacity.

dave ames · « **Reply #49 on:** March 21, 2012, 10:56:08 PM »

"make the best of it.... .."
.... .. That's the spirit.

It's always good to help keep the expectations low for these little systems like many of us poke around with. Looks like the bases have been covered there.

If we look at it as fun hobby system..maybe gives a chance to learn a bit and goof around in the shed for a few hours.. I'd call that a win, even if I still had to drag the grid powered battery charger into the equation on occasion.

Just from here.
Cheers, Dave

Mary B · « **Reply #50 on:** March 22, 2012, 02:54:06 PM »

Can always add solar to the system as you go.

Steadfast · « **Reply #51 on:** March 22, 2012, 03:12:41 PM »

yes... and it seems I need to add more batteries as I can afford them too.

I now own two 140 watt solar panels and a solar controller which can handle both of these.
which I am not afraid to use, as an alternate charge source.

I was wondering if 10 gauge wire can handle, both of these panels with optimal sun, feeding power down the same line without getting too hot???

and if I add these into the systems batteries while the wind turbine is also feeding them, do I need any diodes to protect the solar controller from any erratic charge that the turbine may be throwing off.

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #52 on:** March 22, 2012, 03:29:29 PM »

Quote from: Steadfast on March 22, 2012, 03:12:41 PM

I was wondering if 10 gauge wire can handle, both of these panels with optimal sun, feeding power down the same line without getting too hot???

It depends on the length of the wire run. 10 AWG is .9989 ohm/Kft. So, for instance, on a 100 foot DC wire run 10 AWG wire will dissipate 80 watts @ 20 amps, meaning your 280 watts of installed solar capacity is really only 200 watts by the time you get it to the battery.
--
Chris

Steadfast · « **Reply #53 on:** March 22, 2012, 04:26:43 PM »

Thanks for the info:

My solar pannel wire would be around 20 feet long.
umm, is that 260 watts by the time it gets to the battery???
if so...
As earlier mentioned: "#10 carries 30amps fairly well. at 12v thats ~360 watts"
That would mean both solar pannels will produce a max load of 260 watts delivered in the best of conditions...

I should be ok... Right?

Now, can I add my pannels into the systems batteries, while the wind turbine is also feeding them?
Or, do I need to add any diodes to protect the solar controller from any erratic charge that the turbine may be throwing off?

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #54 on:** March 22, 2012, 04:44:17 PM »

At 20 feet the resistance of a 10 AWG wire run is 0.04 ohm and the wire will dissipate 16 watts @ 20 amps with 0.8 volt drop. I would say that's acceptable loss. Too much over that length with 10 AWG and you'll need bigger wire - or wire the panels in series for higher voltage and use MPPT on them.

--
Chris

Steadfast · « **Reply #55 on:** March 22, 2012, 05:03:51 PM »

Bummer!
My county ordinances limits my pole length to 40 feet...

And yet another question:
How should I go about grounding my turbine to prevent lightning strikes...?
I already own a 6 foot long copper coated grounding rod...

I have seen others online who said they grounded their pole and also the motor seperatly...
Is that right and how is this done...?

fabricator · « **Reply #56 on:** March 22, 2012, 06:40:43 PM »

Everybody has to start learning somewhere, and this promises to be an excellent learning experience,

Bruce S · « **Reply #57 on:** March 23, 2012, 10:10:42 AM »

Steadfast;
Since you're stuck at the 40' pole size, get it up there if you don't already have the 30' built, that extra 10 feet could make all the difference.
I'm curious about the blades you're going to be using and would really like to know how they work out.
I've had some rather heated discussions with the MW&S people in the past, when at localized AE shows.
Since you know these blades are for higher 20mph+ winds you might have problems getting them to spin up fast enough. BUT they will work, and could give you time to maybe craft some blades for your specific site (i.e. lower winds) try for blades in the 15mph range.
IF you happen to have a home-based weather station and can get readings of where your genny is going be, that would be a good start too to find what yours is really seeing on an average.
Then purchase of craft some blades for those ranges.

I would at this point in time keep the solar and wind separate, of course both connected to the batteries, but let the controller handle anything coming into the batteries from the panels only.
Next would be to invest in another set or those batteries as soon as you can.
ChrisO stated it very, correctly about the short amount of time you'll have before you start to drag those batteries down too low.
Understanding that when the system is NOT is use you should have time for the system to catch up on charge.

Another item you might invest in (when you have a spare dime:) ) is a Watt's UP meter. Handy little device, and good for keeping an eye on the incoming PV and a quick digital view on battery level.
This I state since I couldn't find the post about which controller you currently have for them.
Best of luck!!
I believe Rich H, is closer to you that me in St.L so reach out to him, he has tons of knowledge concerning the area, and he's not too afraid to climb up on a tin roof in the pouring rain

.

Keep us up to date!!
Bruce S
PS> When you can find them for free or dirt cheap, you might grab some other smaller sized inverters that way you can turn on only the size you need and not waste power on the larger ones when you don't need to.

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #58 on:** March 23, 2012, 12:27:42 PM »

280 watts of solar power will keep things humming along quite nicely. And on a nice sunny day you will even be able to use your shop tools with the batteries you got without sacking them.

Quote from: Steadfast on March 21, 2012, 10:23:28 PM

And leave the wind up to God...

The wind turbine will be a learning experience on why wind power barely generates enough power to cover losses in battery charging. I love wind power systems as much as the newbie who is enamored with romance of it. But if you can believe what you read, nobody has seen or heard from god for several thousand years so I wouldn't count on her** making the wind blow thru the trees. There is only one way to make a wind turbine work reliably and produce usable power day after day - and that's to put it in nice, clean, laminar flow wind.

** Mother Nature, otherwise known as "god" in some circles, is most definitely female. This is evidenced by the fact that you can never argue with a woman and win.

--
Chris

Steadfast · « **Reply #59 on:** March 23, 2012, 03:30:28 PM »

SPEAKING OF NEVER ARGUEING WITH A WOMAN AND LIVING...
My wife booked up this coming Saturday with some "ALL DAY" family and friends "GET TOGEATHER!"

I'm like...WHAT?

I have been staring at multiple boxes of parts here for several weeks!
I have SOOO much work to do and you want me to go to this stupid thing???
So, naturally, I put my foot down, and I am now doing exactly what SHE WANTS...

As I have said before, I am not one to back down, so when I hit a wall...
I dig under it, climb over it, or blow it up!
Her constant "volunteering" of MY LIMITED SATURDAY TIME has been this project's WALL...

Therefore, I adapted and overcame by putting in (an was approved) to take 3 days of vacation off of work, next week! I WILL have next Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and hopefully Saturday to knock this thing OUT!!!

The pictures are coming folks! The pictures are coming....

Steadfast · « **Reply #60 on:** March 23, 2012, 03:37:10 PM »

Quote from: Bruce S on March 23, 2012, 10:10:42 AM

Steadfast;
I'm curious about the blades you're going to be using and would really like to know how they work out.
I've had some rather heated discussions with the MW&S people in the past, when at localized AE shows.
Since you know these blades are for higher 20mph+ winds you might have problems getting them to spin up fast enough.

I am running falcon blades.... They only need 3mph winds to hit 50 rpm...
have you seen the video yet?

Here is a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PglkMtHGN74

midwoud1 · « **Reply #61 on:** March 23, 2012, 04:00:55 PM »

Oh Chris I think we started something up. Steadfast will make it . Some days jobs have to be done at the same time ..garden ect. I try to keep it in balance here . I assist my wife with wallpapering and she helps me with rigging the windmill . Finally they get free electricty.

- Frans -

Bruce S · « **Reply #62 on:** March 23, 2012, 04:12:16 PM »

Quote from: Steadfast on March 23, 2012, 03:37:10 PM

Quote from: Bruce S on March 23, 2012, 10:10:42 AM
Steadfast;
I'm curious about the blades you're going to be using and would really like to know how they work out.
I've had some rather heated discussions with the MW&S people in the past, when at localized AE shows.
Since you know these blades are for higher 20mph+ winds you might have problems getting them to spin up fast enough.

I am running falcon blades.... They only need 3mph winds to hit 50 rpm...
have you seen the video yet?

Here is a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PglkMtHGN74

I've seen the vid and even the blades in person.
While they were up 50' in an area of Missouri with the wind blowing kinda like it is today.
I've not met "JeFF" but I have had "interactions" with others and it did not go very well, when I started asking "facts".
NOW take this only as a grain of salt, I've not been able to get to Marshfield for a few months now and maybe they corrected the factual statements, and I am truly hoping they have.

Also, at 3mph there is NOT going to be hardly any power in that low of a wind to produce any appreciable amount of output from that motor.
IT is not just the RPMs that is needed but the winds ability to have that motor overcome the batteries voltage level to be able to add anything back into it.

Certainly not trying to be a debbie-downer here, just letting you know.

Cheers;
Bruce S
PS> At MY house I'm in charge!! My wife said said so

and who am I to argue with someone trained to wield a knife ?

ChrisOlson · « **Reply #63 on:** March 23, 2012, 04:50:43 PM »

Quote from: Steadfast on March 23, 2012, 03:30:28 PM

SPEAKING OF NEVER ARGUEING WITH A WOMAN AND LIVING...

Oh, you'll live thru it. But you will emerge from the experience with a true understanding of the Balance of Power.

--
Chris

Steadfast · « **Reply #64 on:** March 25, 2012, 05:34:15 PM »

Here are my plans for black smithing the steel clasp which will grab the turbine pole near the apex of my shed's roof.

here is the successful forged lever fork..

Here is the clasp half way done... 4 hours later.... (clasp in "open" position)

My wife watched me strugging to forge and fine tune all these parts into a working pipe clasp... and questioned how something so solid was going to reduce vibration, then she suggested THIS solution...
I was like "DUH, why didn't you suggest this earlier" She said "I did, but you where too busy being manly, conquer with FIRE, Forge-Man to listen."

I am going with Her Plan... The 6 inch hose camps steel band is long and very wide and thus, will hold it securely, and the loop will allow for vibration, while the wing nuts will allow a quick release for a quick take down of the tower when "bad weather" threatens. Her solution is quick, simple, effective and elegant... Did I say "cheap" as well?

Dont get me wrong:
my solution would have worked in the end but I would have had to work it another 3 hours to get it to function smooth and right...
and vibration would Still be an issue.

midwoud1 · « **Reply #65 on:** March 25, 2012, 06:07:09 PM »

Hi Steadfast.
Just an idea to use a scaffold clamp with hinge and wedge.
Thats 3 seconds to open and close.
Rgds - Frans -

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Author Topic: Light Weight Wind Turbine Project - as I build it. (Read 240303 times)