Author Topic: Steam Engine!!!  (Read 37798 times)

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eigenmorph

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2017, 09:05:29 AM »
Perhaps JW is looking at situations where corn is available. In this locality of Ireland the farmer can expect about 40 Euro per ton for good grain. He might get a few Euros for the straw. Input costs are likely to be 60%   of that without considering the farmer's time or weather risks. Irrespective of its energy density, burning the crop directly can make more sense, provided the energy can be utilised.

I have to say that my preference is to produce Alcohol from the crop and burn the spent mash. The brewing and distillation processes are an excellent application for low grade heat and the product can be stored or sold. Enquiries I made with the Revenue Commissioners some years ago were not at all discouraging.

 


JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2017, 04:16:18 PM »
Hi All,

The reason I burn kernel corn is because its really cheep, also it burns clean. I figured this out the first time I burnt kerosene its REALY expensive.

I received the 2stage turbine today man that thing moves some air. Ive got to modify it so that I can change the speed of the blower. This is a blower that you would use the spray a HVLP painting. Although is is powered by 120vac It will set a benchmark that I will have to duplicate using 12vdc.  Ive completely gotten away from shop air (using piston air pump). 

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2017, 08:04:39 PM »
I have had sometime to digest all this.

Quote
If the impeller is stalling at the high rpm

Well I tried the multistage turbine for HVLP paint spraying and Im getting better results with a RoadPro RPSC-807 10" 12V Super Wet/Dry Vacuum with 1 Gallon Canister.

what I did was reverse the motor plate and turned it into a blower. I wonder about optimizing the impeller to prevent stall. I think Im doing good with what I have, but I would love to use a custom impeller that would press on a 1/8th shaft. If anyone does 3D printing let me know, I will make a video of the performance im getting with the stock impeller. And can provide the basic impeller im using.

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2017, 07:24:25 PM »
Have had several evolutions with my blowers, and am working on a final design will post some pictures soon  :)

eigenmorph

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2017, 09:12:03 AM »
Good to hear you've been making progress. Looking forward to seeing some pictures.
All the best.
Jim.

DamonHD edit: Jim: we generally have a no links (esp commercial) until ~50 posts.  Yours is fine on the commercial front, but could we keep it in the sig to avoid cluttering posts with unrelated links?  Ta.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 01:08:16 PM by DamonHD »

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2017, 05:55:25 PM »
Ive been having some difficulty getting the parts "just right" before final assembly. The picture with the fire is not at a blue flame and is common during start up.







JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2017, 07:17:00 PM »
Testing out the inline attachments

here are some pictures

10933-0
This is my 200amp TIG welder Its AC/DC I weld a lot of aluminum with it.

10934-1
I installed a rollup door for the area I work on my steam engine, There is a concrete slab where I roll things out side.

10935-2
This is a steam traction engine I spotted and took a pic


This is a steam condenser that I made

10937-4
This is a mockup were im assembling the air injection system


 
 

SparWeb

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2017, 07:49:36 PM »
You're going to cook your camera, taking pictures like the one of your steam injector!  :D

I'm trying to get a judgement of where you're going with your mock-up. 
It seems you already have the six tubes welded to the manifold, so what does the flex hose represent?
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2017, 08:25:41 PM »
The first generation of air injection/afterburner used compressed shop air, I had a valve to regulate flow. The first system was considered HPLV. It worked fantastic... The problem is that it was not stand alone, since it needed shop air.

The system worked like this, compressed air was heated really hot with steel tubing in the fire and dispersed into the 6 nozzles the nozzles were shrouded in 3/8 tubing. The actual supply of air discharged thru 1/8 copper tube. The preheating of the air injected was sufficient to burn carbon dust and made an excellent fire and a blue flame. The key is air preheating.

The air injection mock up uses 3/8 dia discharge nozzles compared to the 1/8 tube. The corrugated pipe is to preheat the air since it is directly in the fire stream and the ring that supports the 6 nozzles is also heated. But it is a LPHV system. I use a 12 volt blower/impeller for feeding air to the system and it makes the burner mobile using a 12 volt battery, to control flow I use a PWM speed controller.

   
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george65

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2017, 09:08:05 PM »
I have never burned corn but I have burned a LOT of veg oil and made a lot of burners using different principals for that.
I am interested in your belief the pre heated air makes a difference to the fire and why?
People telling me all the time on my YT channel about air preheating but I have not been able work out any benefit other than a small increase in transition speed from preheat to operating temp which is negligible anyway. Certainly whilst burning there is no difference/ benefit at all.

Any heat in the air is removed as it were from the fire so the net output will be the same. In my burners there is so much excess heat, ( things run red hot in normal operation) that air preheating serves no purpose. But you are not burning oil or working on the retained heat principal my burners work on so I'm interested to learn more about what the pincipals involved with what you are doing are.

From your pictures it seems the corn burns under the air injection nozzles, is that correct?
Have you also worked out what the KW heating value is from your burner?  That engine looks like a LOT of thermal mass and water to get up to temp.
I would think you'd be wanting significant output to get it up to steam in a timely manner.

I'd love to be able to throw one of my burners at something like a steam engine.  My small burners do 200Kw+ and the largest I have verified is 600KW but I have taken it over 1000 only didn't accurately measure it.  There really is no limit to what they can put out other than practacality. Even throwing 50Kw at a metal melting furnace tends to melt the furnace itself.
I had a heat exchanger that came out of a gas boiler that heated an Olympic size pool and was rated at 200Kw. I over powered that pretty easily ( and scarily!)
A steam engine I think would be a great use for one of these burners and probably be able to set a record for going from dead cold to full pressure.  :0)

I have also used 12V blowers on my burners. They were boat bilge blowers and had them on a PWM as well although for my use, I pretty much ran the things flat out anyway and the controller was only used to regulate the start-up air.... which I could do every bit as well with a piece of cardboard over the inlet of the blower as a choke.

Air preheating aside, I think your burner would work well for oil if it were inverted and placed in a deep pan.  If you don't get enough heat with corn,  I'm thinking you should be able to get at least 100Kw with that setup on oil.  You'd get a lot more with a bigger blower.  An option may be to use a couple of batteries, a 12/24V inverter and a 110/ 220V blower.  My favourites are those used for jumping castles but they may be a bit bulky for your needs. They are cheap off fleabay though.  In any case there are certainly a lot more available in mains power than 12V.

That said, a lot of hair-dryers  use 12V motors and as well as doing good volume, they also by design do good air pressure. With the convoluted tube you are using of  smallish diameter, pressure is a consideration as well and  high speed fans are much better at that than something like most 12V blowers. You could also use more than one hairdryer if needed as they could be modified to be pretty compact once you took away the heating elements, switches and superfluous housing.

As you are preheating the air, could you use steam once the boiler was up to speed for your burner air?  I imagine a 1'/4 line at even 50 PSI and set up in an inducer fashion to pull in more air and drop the pressure would give a real good airflow. The steam should not be a worry as it will remain above condensing temps. If this could be made workable, You'd only need the blower to raise steam on once you had, the engine could be totally self sufficient.
Can the corn be burned on a grate like wood or coal? ( with a smaller mesh of course. )

Just an idea but I'd be very interested to know more on your thoughts about the preheated air and it's effect and what sort of KW output you are getting from burning corn.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 09:20:48 PM by george65 »

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2017, 09:48:33 PM »
You make some good points, cant list them all, meaning I agree with your observations but I can do my best to make a decent overview.

Quote
Corn weighs 56 pounds/bushel and has a heat value when dried to 15% moisture content of about 7,000 Btu/lb or 300,000 Btu/bu. In other words, assuming a furnace or boiler efficiency of 75%, one bushel is equal to 2.9 gallons of #2 fuel oil, 4 ccf of natural gas or 4.4 gallons of propane.

Quote
Burning Shelled Corn --A Renewable Fuel Source]

http://www.neo.ne.gov/neq_online/july2006/cornbtu.pdf


This is a copy of a fully operation of a advanced burner, its my patent application which was denied.
http://flashsteam.com/corn-burners-solid-fuel-burners

The question is how many pounds of corn is burned per hour.

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2018, 02:57:19 PM »
Here are some recent pictures

11026-0

11027-1

Doing a little work today on the lathe and final assembly on a flash steam injector.

hiker

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2018, 04:00:34 PM »
Nice lathe...where's your source for cutting bits..
WILD in ALASKA

JW

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Re: Steam engine!!!
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2018, 08:04:45 PM »
I use bits from these to suppliers- http://www.grizzly.com for regular tool bits, I also use https://www.mscdirect.com

« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 08:37:25 PM by JW »

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2018, 02:29:06 PM »
This page is from my website. Im not sure it is advanced, still in the proof of concept stage. But you should check out the engine animation. The link is under the picture.



http://flashsteam.com/steam-engine-project-part-3/
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 02:51:40 PM by JW »

MAL

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2018, 11:40:15 PM »
Hi JW,

I am a little behind on my home work.  You are doing some cool things with steam.  My first question is what is the ultimate goal of this project?  I guess I don't see the big picture.

SparWeb

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2018, 12:41:50 AM »
Me too, I think I see higher thermal efficiency of this cycle compared to a standard steam cycle, but I'd love to hear your take on it JW.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2018, 05:04:59 PM »
The main focus of the four cycle steam engine is that the engine is the boiler meaning there is no boiler steam drums and the like. Flash steam has been the red haired step child of steam engines.

I was at a recent steam meet we had a guy burst a steam line and it was no big deal. Using a monotube steam generator is relatively safe.

When using solid fuel such as wood or kernel corn the operator/designer has to deal with the fact you cant shut off the heat like you can do with kerosene or propane.

The design has to be burnout proof, on one of my flash steam prototype heat exchangers are on a hinge and can be moved out of the fire stream. So you can be in standby mode indefinitely.

As far as efficiency goes it can be a leap since steam can be used as live steam without having to condense all the exhaust. The recycled steam is very low pressure (9psi) and may be superheated.       

Mary B

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2018, 05:57:28 PM »
I can attest to the fact corn burns very hot. I heat my house with it! I have melted 1/8 inch stainless steel rod I use to lift the corn clinker out of the burn pot! But corn requires forced air flow to burn well.

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2018, 06:04:34 PM »
That's correct Mary B infact right now im working on an air injection system, im also preheating the air which boosts combustion efficiency. Ive got a 12 volt blower so the burner can be mobile. 

SparWeb

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2018, 12:33:51 AM »
9 psi in the condenser??  that's a surprise
So when I look at your diagram above, and see the open vent at the head of the condenser, you're not kidding are you? 
It can be completely open as long as the water head in the condenser is a couple of feet high.  Which it is, in your photo from Nov 30.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
www.sparweb.ca

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2018, 05:44:37 PM »
When I build and calculate things I have to assign a trend of positive pressure. When im buying parts I cant say 0psi. The exhaust has pressure pulses. I installed a bore at the top of the piston bottom at dead center. There's pressure there at that moment the pressure is about 40psi, then its gone as the piston moves up and the exhaust valve opens. I know this because I have done dynamic testing using 2400psi it will run all the way down to 600psi feeding the injector valve. Its remarkable how well the injection valve works especially throttling.

I sent my metal hose out to get some ends fitted it for the burner today.   

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2018, 06:02:17 PM »
These are some videos of the engine running, were ready to make the transition to "flash steam"

You'll have to excuse my mess in the second video.

ACB R&D 2002 L.mp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-5UIxJ11iY

ACB R&D 2004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZasy9XNbYU

I still have a few things to complete before I can make the transition to steam. On all the engines I run the condenser open to atmosphere. 

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2018, 09:01:21 PM »
I remember long ago that I would rather build something when I was young, than to have regretted not building it when I was older.

Flash steam is what is produced when water is under pressure is injected into a piston cylinder under high temps. Water can expand 1700 to 1 as steam from liquid to steam.

The flash steam systems are under from 3000psi to 5000psi before injection. The water expands in the engine cylinder to steam.

These are inherently high pressure injections but since the tube is seamless with good wall thickness there is no large dangerous reserves or boilers/drum. Its all 3/8in tubing.

Anyone who has one of the injectors can make an engine run several possible ways.   

hiker

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2018, 10:31:26 PM »
Nice vid..looks like a old  Hit and Miss ..engine.....
WILD in ALASKA

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2018, 09:15:39 PM »
I made some really great progress with the burner tonight. I want to post a video :)

Mary B

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2018, 08:08:18 PM »
Just post a link to the video! I want to see!

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2018, 08:31:00 PM »

Mary B

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2018, 06:51:22 PM »
You need an auger feed system... look at the way some of the bottom fed burn pots are designed. The auger pushes corn in the bottom and ash and clinkers fall over the top lip of the burn pot. US Stove Company is one if memory serves me.

My corn/pellet stove is a top feed where fuel is fed via auger to a drop shoot that is pressurized with air blowing down it into the burn pot. That keeps the fuel at the top of the auger form getting to hot and igniting. I have to manually empty the burn pot. With corn I use a stainless L shaped rod with 2 L sections joined at the top to lift the corn clinker out. Lift it, shake the still burning fuel off, set it in the ash bucket and put a fresh clinker hanger in. I have a half dozen I made so I can rotate them as the corn eats the stainless...

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2018, 08:48:55 PM »
Hi Mary B I don't use a pot burner. The corn is sent to the top of the fuel pile. Check the image







I was doing some testing earlier tonight. Its hard to perfect the burner its self. Once I get the burner working well I will go to the automated design. I started out using an auger pushing up from the bottom of the fuel grate. I ran into so many problems that I decided to just focus on the combustion chamber using top feed and there's not much ash, clinkers are blended with a bar that rotates fast. Also there is the air injection and afterburner these work great to burn ash dust.

Mary B

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #63 on: February 20, 2018, 07:28:42 PM »
Ahh okay. Bottom feed is problem prone from the heat and corrosive effects of burning corn.

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #64 on: February 20, 2018, 08:26:14 PM »
The burner is corrosive no matter the configuration, but thicker metal is not immediately effected. I have a metal screen that keeps the kernels in the combustion chamber under high turbulence, stainless screen erodes pretty fast, im switching to Inconel.

The clinkers are actually a really good source of unburned fuel. The combustion chamber has like a blender that breaks up them.

Also the carbon dust is burned in a after burner where heated air helps combustion. I don't get much ash and when I do its white.     

Mary B

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2018, 06:10:13 PM »
White ash is good, sign you are getting a complete burn. I fiddle with air intake when I am using corn so it has a good flame