General guidance

[Uncorruptable]

Hello everyone,

My name is eoin & i am from ireland, I am a beginner at this & know some technical/electrical stuff but not a great deal, i have gathered some equipment that i will use to build a windmill, as with most projects i tackle my aim is to reuse parts that would otherwise end up scrapped but are perfectly fine to be recycled into good use.

What i have collected so far are,

And i also have a UPS which i will look to modify to utilise the built in invertor,

What i need guidance on is,

I have a battery charger that is 48v 105a, a battery that is 24v made up of 12v batteries in series, & most likley the built in inverter in the UPS will be with a 12v battery in it.

Is the battery charger any use to me in between the windmill & battery in any way?

I understand the current coming from the PMM (Permanent magnet motor) will fluctuate a lot so what do i need to go from that to the battery charger or battery if the charger happens to be no good to me?

Can i modify the UPS to act as the voltage regulator going into the battery bank if i take them off series & the inverter going out if i by pass the internal 12v battery for my forklift battery?

Apologies for all the questions that may appear obvious to expereinced folks but as i said, i am new to this.

[tecker]

Looks like the  motor will need to be ohm - ed out .Seems as though you have starts and speed fields to work with . Jerry had an interesting build on a magnet rotor using neos  to mach the wide fields of his garbage disposal motors . I use a slant to account for the cog but large blades will do if the wind is good in your area . There's not enough wind in my area so I'm gone on something else that's an option to discuss here. My tower is in the works and it's going up above the trees to get catch some   wind .  Open it up and post pics of the stator.Good score on the Batteries
here's Jerrys thread     http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,146006.msg996615.html#msg996615

[Uncorruptable]

Hi Tecker,

As i said, i am a novice at this, can you explain to me in laymans terms,

'Ohm -ed out'
'Starts & speed fields to work with'
'Pics of the stator'

Is the charger any use to me? or am i better off modifying the UPS & making the battery 12v parralell instead of 24v series?

A lot of questions i know but i feel i have all the right stuff but lack the knowledge to put it all together safely & successfully.

[tecker]

Use a multi meter measure the resistance between the field coils  and seperate the starting windings and the the run windings . You should be able to get a reading of between the starts and the run windings . Get the fields separated and  rectify them individually. 
I got a little time I'll look for the motor on line .
 Ok no luck on Arcellk but I think it's from a washer so grab the washer model and ge the wire diagram

[Uncorruptable]

Thanks a million, you lost me at multi meter

Seriously, i have a multi meter here, if you can offer a guide as to what i am to do i will proceed, i assume i have to open it up first yes??

Then if i am grasping you right, i need to seperate two parts of the internal coils from each other?

I will go step by step & come back with pics of each step & seek your guidance if yoou done mind?

Thanks for your help.

Eóin.

[Uncorruptable]

Ok no luck on Arcellk but I think it's from a washer so grab the washer model and ge the wire diagram

Sorry, i may not have mentioned, it is from a BEKO dryer,

http://www.tumble-dryers.org/beko/beko-drvs73-vented-tumble-dryer/

Thats the dryer there, where would i find a wiring diagram online?

[tecker]

Check the Chassis for the diagram and grab the heating elements and the heater enclosure  to use with the wind charger.

[Uncorruptable]

Check the Chassis for the diagram and grab the heating elements and the heater enclosure  to use with the wind charger.

I still have the heating element alright but i dumped the entire outer housing of the dryer.

What use will the element other than obviously heat?

How will this assisst me in banking electricity?

[electrondady1]

teckers brain is a high speed unit!
he doesn't have time for stuff like punctuation.
search the forum for  a motor conversion
with starting coils and run coils you will end up with a  a two phasealternator.

the heating coils are for a dump load for when your battery's are charged

[tecker]

As a dump load for sure . I run every thing that I charge through different  heaters in the winter for space heat they have very low resistance and give a little line resistance to keep the RPM up when the wind rises and falls .
The motor is probably a split Phase that means the Capacitor is connected to one end of the Start windings the other end of the start winding is connected to the run windings with a line in wire .

[Uncorruptable]

So lets break it down,

I need to open up the motor & find where the wires coming from the capacitor underneath are running to, that will be the start windings.

Then i need to track the wire coming from the start windings which leads to the run windings.

What do i do then, do i need to seperate the start winding from the run winding by removing the attaching wire?

once i have done this, what is my next advised step after this has been accomplished? Is that all that needs to be done to the motor?

I will concentrate on the motor just for now & proceed through the rest bit by bit.

[tecker]

Your on it .Separate the the start and run and measure the resistance to verify . Need to take a wire striper and git a look at the wire size .  You'll have temperature overload that can stay if the motor was working when you broke it down. Pick the the board for conversions as E daddy mentioned and read for awhile .You tube s are there also .

[Uncorruptable]

OK, i will have a crack at that later, just for clarity, once i have seperated them where do i locate the positive & negative probes on the multimeter?, also, what setting do i put it at?

Set to Ohms & i have on my meter,

2m
200k
20k
2k
200

I have no problem reading mountains of material, i may not be finding the correct material however, if you will post up[ a few links to relevant threads i will print off the content & have a read.

Thanks again for your help,

Eóin.

[tecker]

Gata go but a line draw of the motor .  Will see for sure when you get it apart.

[Uncorruptable]

So if you please explain the references, L1, C1, L2 & where to locate the Ohm meter and at what setting.

thanks again & sorry for all the questions.

[wpowokal]

Eoin,
L1(L refers to line or source of power) is the run winding and will have the lower resistance, probably in the region of 12 Ohms, L2 is the start
winding and will be a higher resistance (ohms reading) probably around 25 ohms, you would use the 200 ohm position on your meter. C1 is the capacitor, it's use is to phase shift the voltage such that your motor can rotate on a single phase power supply, it actually is a 2 phase motor, we refer to them as single phase because they run off  a single phase power supply as opposed to a three phase supply.

You would place you meter probes on the blue squares across L1 and then the common blue square to the connection between L2 and the capacitor, ie you don't measure the winding resistance through the capacitor. And for resistance measurements the red and black probes on your meter can go either way around.

Your motor is not a PMM, it is not easily used as a wind generator, your battery charger is a beast that would blow the brains out of that battery. ie it is way too big, and you do not use it between a wind turbine and batteries, wind turbines are connected directly to your batteries, and they (batteries)  regulate the voltage, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

UPS have limited application as an inverter, not saying they won't work as such but simple inverters are cheep, depends on your knowledge and desired use.

One thinks others are having a bit of a crack at your expense.

Allan in the jungle

[spottrouble]

I do not see any specs on the battery charger. Most industrial battery chargers use a transformer, by changing taps on the transformer you can change output voltage. You need to open battery charger and look for any instructions or schematics, if you don't find them you can try contacting the mfr, some are helpful.

[Uncorruptable]

Eoin,
L1(L refers to line or source of power) is the run winding and will have the lower resistance, probably in the region of 12 Ohms, L2 is the start
winding and will be a higher resistance (ohms reading) probably around 25 ohms, you would use the 200 ohm position on your meter. C1 is the capacitor, it's use is to phase shift the voltage such that your motor can rotate on a single phase power supply, it actually is a 2 phase motor, we refer to them as single phase because they run off  a single phase power supply as opposed to a three phase supply.

You would place you meter probes on the blue squares across L1 and then the common blue square to the connection between L2 and the capacitor, ie you don't measure the winding resistance through the capacitor. And for resistance measurements the red and black probes on your meter can go either way around.

Ok, thanks for the info, i will go ahead with this & document what i get & return for next steps.

Your motor is not a PMM, it is not easily used as a wind generator, your battery charger is a beast that would blow the brains out of that battery. ie it is way too big, and you do not use it between a wind turbine and batteries, wind turbines are connected directly to your batteries, and they (batteries)  regulate the voltage, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

We will get to this eventually as you point out, if i understand coorrectly now, the fluctuation of voltage going into the battery is OK, but we need to be able to dump the power back into the heating coil if the battery reaches capacity, yes?

That would mean we need a charge controller right?

UPS have limited application as an inverter, not saying they won't work as such but simple inverters are cheep, depends on your knowledge and desired use.

I am coming at this from a position of trying to reuse all parts that would otherwise be scrapped, one because i dont like to waste & see good parts discarded, two because i like to build & work things out & in doing so learn, three because i am flat broke We are having a tough time of it at the minute here in ireland, no surplus money left in my house once the bills & children are taken care of & in the long term this will be better for us if we can save what we pay the energy provider monthly.

One thinks others are having a bit of a crack at your expense.

Allan in the jungle

Ahh, just as well we irish are not thin skinned, i have been around the block a while also, nothing wrong with a bit of craic.

(as long as it doesnt lead to soomeone blowing themselves to bits )

I do not see any specs on the battery charger. Most industrial battery chargers use a transformer, by changing taps on the transformer you can change output voltage. You need to open battery charger and look for any instructions or schematics, if you don't find them you can try contacting the mfr, some are helpful.

So you reckon it can be stepped down to 24v?

What practical use is it to me if i can do this, seeing as it is no use for regulating voltage in between a wind turbine & battery?

[dave ames]

Hey Eóin,

Welcome to the nut house a fun hobby,

I'd reccommend saving that motor for something else and scrounge around for a more suitable lamb for slaughter.

Look for something like a smart drive from a washer, an ac servo, a high amp PMDC brushed motor or ECM type PMAC motor.

Good chance to get that battery bank polished up and tested..looks like some nice 2 volt cells, would clean up all the interconnects and see about it's possibilities for use with that UPS you spoke of.

Afraid there is no real money to be saved with these small systems..however the energy awareness that comes with playing with this stuff may lead to savings in the conservation department. 

Good times.
Cheers, Dave

[Uncorruptable]

Hi Dave,

If you think it would be better to look for another motor i will, Re: the battery bank, it is from a reach forklift, it stands approx 2 and a half foot high by about 3 foot wide, the batteries are 12volts in series to give 24v.

If i do source an alternative motor i am assuming that there is no conversion needed, yes?

What good is the motor i have for if i do not use it for wind turbine?

[tecker]

You can bale on this motor . You can bale on all induction motors .
Starting with this stuff is hard to under stand especially on a budget . There's a good chance the windings are Aluminum
 Just keep up the reading there's nothing but options once you get hooked on RE. Hang in there .
Getting the power factors and the magnets aligned on the rotor picking through the data is a trick that's seems more than you can tackle but it's satisfying when your up and running .While your getting the charger setup you can check out the batteries also .
Fillem up with distilled water and load test . All part of getting setup to change over .I usually tell folks that want to get into making their own power  to just take over one room of their house and make it the re room only .

[Uncorruptable]

Just for clarity,

I will have a  look for annother motor so, but what use is this motor for?

I may use it if i know what to use it for.

Also, the battery charger, if i am not to use it as a device in between the power generating source & the battery, what ccan i use it for?

[fabricator]

Seeing as ho you are almost neighbors you might want to get hold of the guy who basically started this whole mess. http://scoraigwind.com/

[Uncorruptable]

Thanks for that link, i will go away for a while & research.

[tecker]

This is not a bad place to start .What is in the picture is a three phase motor from a Laser printer .All brands use these for the toner motor Keep an eye out and fashion some blades to a a bearing set with a direct couple to the motor . Pick up some 6 volt batteries . Ihave several for the folks around work I'm jammering RE to to get a start. Just take off one side of the printer rip it out  .and desolder from the controller board .They work  well without swapping out the mags but the larger one will get neos to get the voltage up to 24  . mounting stuff to use also .

[Bruce S]

Like Tecker said, 
Go after the HP 4000 series of laser printers the older ones seem to find themselves being dumped a lot lately.
Old 4050s can usually be found around places that offer repairs as a service to offices.
Best of luck
Bruce S

[spottrouble]

Just for clarity,

I will have a  look for annother motor so, but what use is this motor for?

I may use it if i know what to use it for.

Also, the battery charger, if i am not to use it as a device in between the power generating source & the battery, what ccan i use it for?

Whether or not the battery charger is reconnectable to 24V depends on how it was made, most of the forklift battery chargers I've fooled with were, but not all, just most. Until you have a wind turbine big enough to charge that battery pack the charger could be used to maintain the battery and keep it charged. You could then start work on the "usage" side of your system, ie inverter or low voltage circuits. Of course using the battery charger, the battery, and the inverter would result in higher total energy usage due to losses in the conversions, but at least you get that part of your system operational.

[electrondady1]

i like gluing magnets down and turning coils .

but any dc motor will give a bit of current when spun.
hook up some led lights
the kids will think your a wizard.

if things don't turn around in Ireland, come to Canada

[fabricator]

Just for clarity,

I will have a  look for annother motor so, but what use is this motor for?

I may use it if i know what to use it for.

Also, the battery charger, if i am not to use it as a device in between the power generating source & the battery, what ccan i use it for?

Whether or not the battery charger is reconnectable to 24V depends on how it was made, most of the forklift battery chargers I've fooled with were, but not all, just most. Until you have a wind turbine big enough to charge that battery pack the charger could be used to maintain the battery and keep it charged. You could then start work on the "usage" side of your system, ie inverter or low voltage circuits. Of course using the battery charger, the battery, and the inverter would result in higher total energy usage due to losses in the conversions, but at least you get that part of your system operational.

They are quite often three phase too, but then again I think residential power in Europe is all three phase.

[Uncorruptable]

Couple of things,

I should be able to lay my hands on a few printers alright, will a small motor like that deliver any significant charge to that big battery?

The battery charger is 48v 105a.

It would seem the UPS is alright to adapt as an inverter after all, yes?

[tecker]

 The 48 volt charger will need a mod to charge the 24 volt 240 AH . Several ways to proceed . I suggest a New thread in the Diary section . I want to know your up to speed on these devices and your not being condescended to . Let's work on some thing small .I'm assuming you probably paid a winter power bill and decided to make a change .
 Start a new tread in the diary section and get the batteries from the Ups and sets see if they are any good . Check the fork lift bank also .
Let's end this thread with a trip to You tube
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY-ftoE8xr0

[Uncorruptable]

.I'm assuming you probably paid a winter power bill and decided to make a change .

You assume wrong my good man,

I built my own projector from scrap parts, make bio diesel, resuse all manner of wires that would otherwise go in the bin to wire my house, grow my own veg, keep my own hens for eggs, make my own beer, wine & Cider.........

and right now at this very moment playing along side on my PC as i type Jimi hendrix is playing the star spangled banner at woodstock..........

But you are right, i dont like the bills

[tecker]

Ok Let's tune it up hook up a  diary and we'll get it.
  one more for the road

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4gJB-pSFvI