Author Topic: Long cable run  (Read 2517 times)

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ruairihev

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Long cable run
« on: May 22, 2012, 03:32:25 AM »
I have a great site where I want to erect a grid tied wind turbine, the only problem is that the site is 280m from the grid connection point. I have been looking into different possibilities for the cable run and I'm looking for opinions on the best, cost effective, efficient way to transmit the power.

Initially I am putting up a 2.5Kw but want to make provisions for a 6Kw in the future. The 6Kw stator will be wound for about 6Kw at 250 volts.

So the options as I see them:

3 core 25sq SWA bringing the 3 phase from the turbine to the inverter 280m away

Inverter at the base of tower and 3 core 16sq or 25sq SWA bringing 1 phase (230V) the 280m

Inverter at the base of tower, 230 to 600V transformer, 3 core 6sq SWA for 280m then 600V to 230V transformer

Rectifier at base of tower, 280m of 2 core 25sq SWA to inverter

I think 25sq is about the same as AWG 3. SWA means Steel Wire Armour. 280m =  918ft

Are there any other options that I could use? I suppose the voltage drop over the 280m is what I'm concerned about, if the inverter is 280m away from the grid connection point then the voltage drop could be too high to be 230V at the connection point, it might be 215V which is not acceptable. It's a 6Kw Aurora inverter.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

Rob Beckers

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Re: Long cable run
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2012, 08:37:57 AM »
Hi Ruairihev,

First, you can change the grid voltage of the Power-One Aurora inverter in case it gets too high (and disconnects) during backfeeding of the grid. The AuroraInstaller program will let you do this, as well as the inverter's front panel. We often raise them by 5 Volt on installation, since the grid here is very 'weak' in many places (high impedance, so the voltage shoots up during backfeeding). The inverter has a window around the grid voltage as set in the inverter, for North America it's from 90% ... 108% of the set value, for your region that could be slightly different depending on regulatory requirements.

For wiring, when I plug in the numbers for 920 feet (280m), 6kW, and 240V phase-to-phase, I get 3.8% losses with 6 AWG copper wire. For aluminum wiring (cheaper) you would need 4 AWG for 3.8% losses. In general, we shoot for 4% losses or less at peak power. Keep in mind that actual losses overall are much lower than this, since wind turbines do not often run at peak power, most of the time they run at a lower output. Using 3 AWG copper would give you 1.9% losses, which is nice, but overkill IMO.

I would avoid adding a transformer to the mix: They cost money (6kVA is not cheap), and add losses. In particular you will have stand-by losses even when there is no wind.

Rectifying 240V 3-phase at the tower base will give you about 325V DC, and 18.5A. If my rather quick math is correct, you'll get 4.1% losses with 6 AWG copper, and 3.3% with 5 AWG. Of course, in this case you need just two conductors instead of three.

Running wiring at 230V AC single-phase is going to be worse, it's 26A, and losses go with the square of the current. In that case you  would need 3 AWG for 4.1% losses, and 2 AWG copper for 3.2%.

From the above, I'd recommend moving power through 3-phase wild-AC from the turbine. 6 AWG copper wiring is not bad (and not too expensive). You'll have to do the conversion to square-mm.

By the way, I see a large number of Aurora wind inverters that get destroyed by overvoltage. Please make absolutely sure you have something in place so the DC voltage into the inverter never exceeds 600V (or about 440V AC 3-phase). Relying on a dump load is often not enough, I've seen many turbines with dump loads blow inverters. A voltage sensing relay and contactor to positively disconnect the inverter at a set voltage is better.

-RoB-

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Re: Long cable run
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2012, 09:36:10 AM »
Power companies use hundreds of miles of aluminum to get power to your house so I figured it was good enough to get a little bit of power from my turbine to the house, I used 2awg aluminum it's about 1/4-5/16" conductor diameter.
It is also very economical.
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11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

ChrisOlson

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Re: Long cable run
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2012, 12:10:25 PM »
I agree that aluminum is bar far the most economical for long distance power transmission.  I run power from one turbine over a 1/8th of a mile at 150 volts with 2 AWG AL @ 3 kW.  Absolutely no problems at all with it.
--
Chris

Frank S

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Re: Long cable run
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2012, 02:31:04 AM »
here are some AWG to MM2 sizes

#3/0 .472" dia = 9.4mm =70.123mm2
#2/0 .347"  ""  = 8.839mm=61.361mm2
#1/0 .324"  ""  =8.230mm =53.197mm2
#1     .300"  ""  =7.620mm =45.603mm2
#2    .275"   ""  =7.01mm  =38.594mm2
#3    .252"  ""  =6.401mm=32.180mm2
#4   .232"  ""   =5.893mm=27.274mm2
#5   .212"  ""   =5.385mm=22.775mm2
#6   .192"  ""     =4.877mm=18.680mm2
#7   .175"   ""  =  4.470mm=18.680mm2
#8   .160"   ""  = 4.064mm=15.692mm2
 
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scoraigwind

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Re: Long cable run
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2012, 05:51:17 AM »
hi Frank,

I am pretty sure they are the wrong conversion you gave there.  I do this conversion quite a lot.

Here is a table I found that better matches my experience:

Wire Size Conversion Table

(AWG) on left and (mm2) on right hand side
0000   0.46    11.68    107.16
000    0.4096    10.40    84.97
00    0.3648    9.27    67.40
0    0.3249    8.25    53.46
1    0.2893    7.35    42.39
2    0.2576    6.54    33.61
3    0.2294    5.83    26.65
4    0.2043    5.19    21.14
5    0.1819    4.62    16.76
6    0.162    4.11    13.29
7    0.1443    3.67    10.55
8    0.1285    3.26    8.36
9    0.1144    2.91    6.63
10    0.1019    2.59    5.26
11    0.0907    2.30    4.17
12    0.0808    2.05    3.31
13    0.072    1.83    2.63
14    0.0641    1.63    2.08
15    0.0571    1.45    1.65
16    0.0508    1.29    1.31
17    0.0453    1.15    1.04
18    0.0403    1.02    0.82
19    0.0359    0.91    0.65
20    0.032    0.81    0.52
21    0.0285    0.72    0.41
22    0.0254    0.65    0.33
23    0.0226    0.57    0.26
24    0.0201    0.51    0.20
25    0.0179    0.45    0.16
26    0.0159    0.40    0.13


http://www.reuk.co.uk/AWG-to-Square-mm-Wire-Size-Converter.htm
Hugh Piggott scoraigwind.co.uk

Frank S

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Re: Long cable run
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2012, 06:08:27 AM »
Hi scoraigwind;
 as usual you are absolutism correct LOL
The table I found was incomplete so had to math in part of the ##
in addition after I looked up in my Ugly's & old NEC I found that even the table had some small errors in it or was using theoretical relevance but I didn't have my scanner handy at the time and forgot to correct my post later
 Thanks for posting a corrected table 
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scoraigwind

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Re: Long cable run
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2012, 02:30:48 AM »
I don't normally use a table to convert. I made a formula that I use in an Excel spreadsheet.

AWG size =LOG(53.5/x,1.261) where x is the sqmm size.

sq.mm size =53.5/1.261^y where y is the AWG size.

This mostly seems pretty reliable.

Hugh
Hugh Piggott scoraigwind.co.uk