CNC Machined Wind Turbine

[JW]

Just to stir the pot abit-

http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?topic=127806.0


JW

[fabricator]

Hey JW why don't the spell check work anymore?

[JW]

It says, the spell check may not work on all servers (meaning our host) I just reset the function (spell check) and will reset to see if that will work, stand by...

[mroy0404]

So you are selling a turbine on feebay with no idea of the actual numbers it will put out, using a completely meaningless graph, that is the definition of a scam, I would suggest you remove the machine from feebay until you can give customers actual real world numbers, that is what this board is all about, those numbers with that blade setup will be dismal, but at least they will be the truth.
There are several blade makers in the US, Royal Wind and Solar for one, I know of another new blade builder but I don't think he would want anything to do with this fiasco.
Your machining skills are up to snuff, just hold off on going for the quick and dirty buck until you have all your ducks in a row.

@ Fabricator
I have posted a wind turbine on Ebay, I have never added the link here, nor have I posted any type of sales pitch. As for the graph attached to the Ebay listing. I simply copied it from the my PMA supplier.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wind-Generator-Turbine-SUPER-PATRIOT-PMA-Alternator-12v-/320609856079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa5d62a4f#ht_6583wt_1110
This is the PMA i designed my wind turbine housing around. This slip ring is also installed in my turbine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200661012580?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_5736wt_1110
We will be installing a turbine for our real world testing sometime this week, if all go's well we will have a web cam set up along with real time weather reports. I will post a link for all to see very soon.
By the way I have never claimed any numbers (not even in the Ebay listing) so relax abit!!

[JW]

fgsdhgtjy;lkyukytliuy   friohtporithjyo[i6rjyu

I tried but it wont work, I will ask the host guy about this, will make an announcement in the news section if we can fix the spell check.

JW

[Watt]

So you are selling a turbine on feebay with no idea of the actual numbers it will put out, using a completely meaningless graph, that is the definition of a scam, I would suggest you remove the machine from feebay until you can give customers actual real world numbers, that is what this board is all about, those numbers with that blade setup will be dismal, but at least they will be the truth.
There are several blade makers in the US, Royal Wind and Solar for one, I know of another new blade builder but I don't think he would want anything to do with this fiasco.
Your machining skills are up to snuff, just hold off on going for the quick and dirty buck until you have all your ducks in a row.

@ Fabricator
I have posted a wind turbine on Ebay, I have never added the link here, nor have I posted any type of sales pitch. As for the graph attached to the Ebay listing. I simply copied it from the my PMA supplier.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wind-Generator-Turbine-SUPER-PATRIOT-PMA-Alternator-12v-/320609856079?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa5d62a4f#ht_6583wt_1110
This is the PMA i designed my wind turbine housing around. This slip ring is also installed in my turbine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200661012580?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_5736wt_1110
We will be installing a turbine for our real world testing sometime this week, if all go's well we will have a web cam set up along with real time weather reports. I will post a link for all to see very soon.
By the way I have never claimed any numbers (not even in the Ebay listing) so relax abit!!

That is some cool looking yard ornament you got there but kinda pricey.  With no way of knowing what kind of output it has to be a wind turbine, I think I'd be a bit reserved in purchasing that unit.  Again, nice looking work for sure.

[mroy0404]

Has anyone tried these blades. Im thinking about making a 3 blade hub and testing on my mini wind turbine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/310405567687?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619

any thoughts?

[fabricator]

Those won't work, 9.5 foot blades turn to slow for that delco, here we go again, you already put the thing on feebay, now you want to make it work right? You Don't see a problem with that?

[sean_ork]

put a couple of 2 foot long blades on it and pray for a hurricane - then it'll produce

[mroy0404]

Look Fabricator.  Im only asking if anyone have tried these blades , I would like to try these blades with a planetary gear drive something like this http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/270867156/PLANET_CARRIERS_RING_GEARS_HELICAL_RING.html    installed in a nice CNC machined housing in front of the PMA on my turbine. if you can not help with decent answers, just dont reply at all please. Im not asking anyone on this forum to buy anything from me. Im not a SCAMER as you have suggested!!!
I am only looking for help from other members.


Mike Roy in Canada

[Bruce S]

@ Fab;
Sorry all, I have family out near our hosts and with the fire going out of control in  CO!! I was otherwise occupied this past weekend.
FAB;
Let me see if I can help defuse this issue. thanks for looking out for the forum!! please send me an email next time!! or do the whole report to admin button.

@Mike.
Fab is reacting to stuff from the recent past, where, more than one "person" has posted here with UN-realistic numbers, then gone-on to other places even ebay, without so much as a thanks or note.
Even Windstuff Ed's blade profile was being out-right copied by Pacific--- without even a nod to ALL his work.
I looked at the ebay posting. Even posting the links are normally a no no unless you're up over 50 posts, and I'm not sure where the other Admin/GM are with killing those ebay alibaba links in your posting are. I can understand the DANS a bit busy what with a fire heading towards them and all!

@ALL
OKAY, now the numbers you currently have up show 12V 45A that's 540watts.

Those numbers without wind speed, RPM, load, and actual testing numbers like Jerry use to put up; make it look like other's who are normally out to just get money.
I see that you've taken the chart down, that's good, even I (not a big windmill number guy) would've been able to tear it apart.

Best thing to do is to put up wind speed with real world output.

That will make your ebay posting stand out from the rest of the crowd.
BTW: Fab is a 'mill numbers guy so I can understand where his temper is stemming from AND he holds the ALL time banned record in one year, one month,etc.
I will ask that you NOT post any more links to ebay or alibaba, I will be forced to remove them.
I should remove the others, but we'll see.
Your machining skills are great, but try not to fall into the same hole bunches of other do by posting copied charts.

Bruce S

[mroy0404]

@ Bruce

Sorry for all the commotion, I was not here to make any type of sales pitch, scam or mislead anyone. I think it would be a good idea to just delete this entire thread. I will only ask questions in basic form from here on out!


Sorry for posting pic's of my work, wont happen again

Mike Roy in Canada

[Bruce S]

Mike;
Post away!! We all agree (even FAB  ) your CNC work is awe inspiring!! Post pics instead of links, if you would please.
It's just that unfortunately you got caught by what a great number of others do, and that's using graphs from others.
I'd say put the beautiful mill up in air and post some numbers from  your real world experiences.
Don't worry too much about how good or not they are, real world numbers beats everything else hands-down.
I personally and in a GM mode  don't think you were putting those up trying to scam someone. 
I would've said something in private if I thought that.
Cheers
Bruce S

 

[Watt]

Mike;
Post away!! We all agree (even FAB  ) your CNC work is awe inspiring!! Post pics instead of links, if you would please.
It's just that unfortunately you got caught by what a great number of others do, and that's using graphs from others.
I'd say put the beautiful mill up in air and post some numbers from  your real world experiences.
Don't worry too much about how good or not they are, real world numbers beats everything else hands-down.
I personally and in a GM mode  don't think you were putting those up trying to scam someone. 
I would've said something in private if I thought that.
Cheers
Bruce S

Bruce

I hope you noticed that I posted the first link to ebay regarding this turbine.  It was not the OP if there was a question.  Thanks for looking out for us.

Regards

[Bruce S]

Watt;
Yep, I noticed thanks!!
What I do not want to do is have Mike stop posting and stop coming back.
Like many have said , his mill work is top notch, and the mill truly is a pretty looking unit!!
The biggest bummer is that he got sucked into the graph void, like a number of others have.
The professional sellers who seem to pass those graphs around like old baseball cards,  I'd go after in 1/2 a heart beat, BUT I don't believe for one minute Mike was trying to do this on purpose.
Once they ( He and his Wife) have numbers from having that beautiful machine up in the air, I'd really like to see those numbers posted.
Cheers!
Bruce S

 

[mroy0404]

Hi Guys

Its been sometime since I have been here. We have done some testing with the help from the Sarnia Lambton College for the past few months. We are installing 3 units on the roof of a industrial building. With the help of 16 third year alternative energy program students we will study 3 configurations. 1st will be the 5 blade, second will be the 3 blade and the third will be the variable pitch design.
Please keep in mind, I am not here to make any type of sales pitch. Just posting an update to your asked questions. I have also attached afew pic's of the Vari pitch hub that I have machined from 6061-T6 Aluminum.

[birdhouse]

beautiful work! 

far from my abilities!  such nice machines are not going to show their true colors on a roof top mount.  that's a bummer. 

here at FL, we try to shun roof top mounts as much as possible.  they create very turbulent nasty wind. 

not trying to be a debbie downer, but rather wishing you had a truly accurate testing ground with lets say a 80' tower in a fairly un-obstructed area. 

adam

[midwoud1]

Hi Mroy.

That is high class.
 Hope you can give us more info about this beautiful project.
I'm looking on fora worldwide to find people making variable blades.
In the Netherlands there is 2 more people them have it under construction.

What is your propeller diameter?
Is it an active pitch or springloaded ?

I have an active pitchcontrolled  windmill operational for 2 years succesful.

All the best : Frans    midwoud1

[mroy0404]

Thank you for the compliments midwoud1.
 The Blade Dia is 61 inches and it will be spring loaded and adjustable for RPM when the pitch will become active.

[Frank S]

MRoy some fine machine work there.
 with the type of pitch control you are going to use by the way you described it it sounds similar to a set up I have been designing for a larger machine
 if you can find an old thread titled "active pitch control" Fran's 2 year operational unit is located there 

[mroy0404]

Here is a short Vid. to show how this active pitch design works. It is almost finished. I will fit this hub to the turbine to fight the over speeding. The next step will be, design a 6" axial flux Gen. and run 2 or 3 off them in the same turbine. This hub is only the prototype. I will tighten up the design for a working model.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgYXZ2R7uMY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wgYXZ2R7uMY

[mroy0404]

Here are afew more close up pic's for the 6.950" Dia. active pitch control hub. Keep in mind this is only a prototype unit. I will lighten up this design later.

[fabricator]

There is really no reason to lighten the hub, seems like it would be a good idea to see if it holds up before you do anything to it.

[mroy0404]

Good point. I will run this unit first.

[dnix71]

That's some impressive machining but aluminum and stainless won't last long moving metal on metal unless that hub is filled with some type of lube and sealed. I would have used delrin bushings, they are cheap enough to change out after x hours service and don't require oil or grease.

You won't be able to seal a spinning hub without a boot, like a constant velocity joint on a front-wheel drive automobile. Those use special moly grease. As long as the boot remains intact they never need relubing.

You aren't going to make much power from that size blade. My Air-X without the electronics hits just over 200 watts in gale force gusts during thunderstorms. Mount the mill on a pole on the bed of a pickup truck and drive 10, 20 and 30 miles per hour with the mill connected through a Turnigy meter http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__Turnigy_130A_Watt_Meter_and_Power_Analyzer.html?gclid=CN3XiOGkh7QCFQf0nAodygEAkg
to a large flooded 12v battery and see what the mill can put out. Then post back real world numbers.

You might want to consider a higher voltage alternator than 12v nominal. My AirX only works at all because it was wired for 48v output. Even in some light winds I get enough voltage to charge my 12v system.

[midwoud1]

Hi Mroy
With all the respect for the machining, I see some weak points in the design.
In high winds there is a lot of thrust-force on the blades.
In my constuction I made double bearing blocks to withstand the forces.
The tilt blade shafts are milled out to 50 percent.
The center spider bushing , alu / Stainless shaft .
Different materials .How to avoid  corrosion over the longer time?
Active pitch control : Do you use fly-weights or an actuator and hollow mainshaft?

Rgds. - Frans -

[sean_ork]

the machining truly is excellent, I suspect the design will change after a very short period of time once it gets hoisted and starts spinning

I, along with a few others spotted the previous, also very well made, turbine for sale on ebay

I asked a number of questions, via ebay of the seller - all were answered very quickly until I asked for some performance figures .............. zero response, not even the decency to admit to not having done any real world testing

so beware, all that glitters is not gold

 

[mroy0404]

Hi Mroy
With all the respect for the machining, I see some weak points in the design.
In high winds there is a lot of thrust-force on the blades.
In my constuction I made double bearing blocks to withstand the forces.
The tilt blade shafts are milled out to 50 percent.
The center spider bushing , alu / Stainless shaft .
Different materials .How to avoid  corrosion over the longer time?
Active pitch control : Do you use fly-weights or an actuator and hollow mainshaft?

Rgds. - Frans -

The bearing blocks in my design also have double bearings installed in them. (I will post pic's of the bearing blocks disassembled soon)
I will use either brass or a nylon bushing in the future (this unit is only a rought prototype)
The Pitch will be set up this time using fly weights installed in the slots of the base spider. In the future I want too design an axial flux Gen. at that time I will use the hollow shaft design and make this a true active pitch hub.
[/quote]

[mroy0404]

That's some impressive machining but aluminum and stainless won't last long moving metal on metal unless that hub is filled with some type of lube and sealed. I would have used delrin bushings, they are cheap enough to change out after x hours service and don't require oil or grease.

You won't be able to seal a spinning hub without a boot, like a constant velocity joint on a front-wheel drive automobile. Those use special moly grease. As long as the boot remains intact they never need relubing.

You aren't going to make much power from that size blade. My Air-X without the electronics hits just over 200 watts in gale force gusts during thunderstorms. Mount the mill on a pole on the bed of a pickup truck and drive 10, 20 and 30 miles per hour with the mill connected through a Turnigy meter http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__Turnigy_130A_Watt_Meter_and_Power_Analyzer.html?gclid=CN3XiOGkh7QCFQf0nAodygEAkg
to a large flooded 12v battery and see what the mill can put out. Then post back real world numbers.

You might want to consider a higher voltage alternator than 12v nominal. My AirX only works at all because it was wired for 48v output. Even in some light winds I get enough voltage to charge my 12v system.

Thank you for your input Dnix71, These are kind of post I like to read. This idea of a delrin bushing pressed into the moving spider will make this wear longer for sure. I just ordered the Watt meter you suggested too me. I will try to get some testing done, it's rather tough for me to test this unit tho. I just dont have the space available to properly test it as I live in the city.

[mroy0404]

I have a question for all you guys, do any of you live near Sarnia, Ont. Canada? and have space available too test this turbine?

[mroy0404]

Here are the pic's of the double row bearing blocks. These bearings make the pitch move so smoothly. In total there are 6 sealed bearings in the three blocks. The linkage are also full bearing supported with stainless steel miniture bearing. when finished the  fly weights having 3 bearings each, the total bearing count will be 21

[mroy0404]

Here are pic's of the 3 linkage arms with miniture stainless steel bearings installed in them.

[midwoud1]

Mroy.

Thanks for the info.  Nice bearings.

Good luck

  - Frans -