Author Topic: Offset Heat bill with kero  (Read 13090 times)

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JW

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Offset Heat bill with kero
« on: January 22, 2013, 07:48:04 PM »
Ok, I made my selection and its on the way.-  Hopefully I will recieve it by the end of the week...

Sengoku CV-2230 KeroHeat Convection 23,000-BTU Portable Kerosene Heater
http://www.amazon.com/Sengoku-KeroHeat-Convection-Portable-Kerosene/dp/B000KKO33A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358900238&sr=8-1&keywords=kerosene+heater

This is an indoor heater, I have this hallway and its always cold by the air pickup for the Central HVAC system.

My goal to save energy/heat is run off of the kero heater and just run fan circulation, where the kero heat is drawn into the air ducting. Any suggestions one the best type of (air intake) air filter are welcome.

Im sure that not using aux heat or the heat pump(conventional heating) will  be a savings for me.

I will post some pictures by the weekend, its a really easy thing to drop my energy use in winter time.



JW

XeonPony

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2013, 10:01:16 AM »
Kerosene is pretty pricy at least here 60 dollars for 5 gallons

1.5 gallons will last ruffly 16 hours
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dbcollen

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2013, 12:37:24 PM »
Most Kerosene heaters will run fine on diesel fuel as well, it may even say something about it in the manual.

Mary B

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2013, 06:18:31 PM »
Diesel gums up the wicks. The local coop sells dyed K1 that I used in the past when I had a kero heater. I don't think you are going to heat the entire house and you won't save money. I used 2 heaters to keep ~1400 sq feet heated at -20f. Hauling kero gets old, I was going to put in a bulk tank then they said they wouldn't deliver less than 1,000 gallons. I had a 250 gallon tank on a stand.

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 06:46:08 PM »
Ya, I ordered and canceled one of the wick type burner. Im not sure if the one I ordered has a wick or not. refer to my link above.

I got this off of amazon, im lookin to get it tomorrow with the fedex tracking number they gave me.

Im going to look at kerosene prices tomorrow, I would not ever use a wick type of heater with diesel.

JW

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 07:09:20 PM »
I have found an interesting link on this very topic

http://www.msue.msu.edu/objects/content_revision/download.cfm/revision_id.499650/workspace_id.-4/01500603.html/

Quote from: quote from link
#12 Is it cheaper to use a portable kerosene heater or a portable electric heater for spot heating my home?

It costs about the same to operate either heater when your electrical rate is 5 cents per kilowatt hour and you can buy 1-K grade kerosene for $2 per gallon. A gallon of 1-K kerosene has a Btu equivalence of approximately 40 kilowatt hours. (135,000 Btu and 3,413 Btu/KwHr). To estimate operating costs, multiply your actual cost per kilowatt hour by 40 to determine what you could pay for 1-K kerosene per gallon to produce the same number of Btu's. In addition, consider comparative purchase prices of electric and kerosene haters, maintenance costs of both, convenience and related factors. For example, the operating costs provided above for kerosene units does not allow for the heat lost by slightly opening a window for ventilation, as recommended by the Consumer Product Safety Commission and most manufacturers. Neither is allowance made for costs new electrical outlets or circuits that might be needed for a portable electrical heater.


So tomorrow I will be pricing the local price of kero in my area.


Mary B

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2013, 03:45:46 PM »
The one you ordered has a fiberglass wick.

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2013, 09:15:55 AM »
You are correct, its round like a sock. there's some type of air diffuser on the wick. The price of K1 kerosene in my area is $4.49 per gallon. The heater works pretty good had a chance to use it last night. I took some pictures and will post them as I get some time. Just really busy at work yesterday.

JW

12AX7

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2013, 12:08:04 PM »
We've got a couple of "antique"  oil heaters and can't stand the smell they produce.  I tired a couple of different fuels and the wife said she'd rather have me start a camp fire (wood)  in the middle of the living room.

I picked up a used  "newer" oil heater,  and we couldn't tell any difference,  it stunk too.

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2013, 05:08:58 PM »
Yes!!! we experience'd this last night at about 4 in the morning the flame was out. These type of heaters dont smell that badly when there burning "good". But if you shut the thing off and restart it the fumes can fill the house easily.

What I do with mine is take it outside to the porch, when ever I add fuel "only outside" or lighting up or shutting down the burner.

I also have a Trion ionizer which takes care of the smell enough/ that my wife can breathe now. I will update shortly with the pictures.


JW

OperaHouse

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2013, 05:28:25 PM »
A coworker yeqars ago collapsed iin the office.  He had a perferated lung The doctor fixed that and the scraped lots of black stuff out of his lung.  Doctor told him that he had to give up smoking.  He replied that he had never smoked a day in his life.  Later it was found that there was a crack in the heat exchanger of his furnace.  His wire never complaned about soot deposits in the house.  That has always left an impression on me.  I rented a house to a guy that used additional kero heat.  That took years to clean off the walls.  You has your fun, you takes your chances.

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2013, 06:20:52 PM »
Chances Indeed....

So far I been able too totally freak out the cental air's thermostat, and where ever the Heater is its wamer than the bed room or any other AC vents.

The kero heater is not the solution, but my point here on this post is to present the idea and. the nuts and bolts.

My Apt has no wood stove or gas heat. The last blizzard that came thru knocked out my power and I ran my inverter for the fun of it, I got 4hrs of use from a single battery.

It caused my wife to panic abit, so I came up with the kero heater unit, when theres no power "we can use that for heat".

So if the power is out for a day or two I can heat using kero.

The heater is very easy to move when operating, so Its versitile.


JW

Bruce S

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2013, 06:58:57 PM »
JW;
Here's a link to the Butane grill we have, this you'll notice is the higher heat one.
http://www.chef-master.com/gas_stoves_90004.php
I use them during the chili cookoffs :-).
Ours does not have the newer ones that includes a sensor that turns off the flame when a pot is not on the burner. I think that would be a hassle when trying to roast peppers :-/
The fuel, like I said lasts between 2 and 6 hours depending on flame size.
We've used them during ice storm outages and they will certainly keep a good are warm. I used one in our basement to keep it above freezing, though I had it in a washtub sized pan for safety.
They automatically flame out if fuel gets too low.
It is true, they do need to have the fuel cans above 32F according to the cans. I've not had any problem getting them to light when 20F (during a time when I left the unit outside  >:(, I needed to light it outside to make sure nothing was gonna go booooom with the can ).

Here's our oldest one
Bruce S
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JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2013, 09:26:08 PM »
Here are some pictures, and I have more to say about this topic,




intro





ionizer








will update


JW




JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2013, 11:42:32 PM »
I happen to have an industial ionizer, I used it in the house when I smoked inside...















This last pic is a close up of the wick

We do get an oder and the inonizer is a bonus, as I kept in good shape(the ionizer), but the burner you have to light it up out side and let it burn for about 7 minuites or so. Same goes for shutting off the burner, take it outside and let it smoke or whatever. After a half hour its ok to bring it back in the house till the next time you light it. You also want to fuel outside because the kerosene smells really strong.
I get close to 10 hours run time per fueling.

' what is in advantage, is that you can move the burner while it is opreating. We're (what im finding) finding is if you place it to close to the HVAC thermostat the rest of the house goes cold. This has confounded my logic because that drafty air is what the thermostst needs and by heating there the system becomes confounded,

The relivation that we need better insulation has proved to be the lesson learned here. Also we have no fireplace, if the power goes out and the cant run on utility power, we atleast have back up plan if we should need heat.

JW

Simen

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2013, 01:24:45 AM »
You really should consider a propane heater instead, like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Delux-RA18LPDGD-Propane-Cabinet-Heater/dp/B0041OEB7E/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hg_1

They give around 4kW+ of heat, and burn much cleaner. I use one similar myself. :)
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Mary B

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2013, 03:48:40 AM »
I have a propane ceramic catalytic heater that I use for backup. Uses 20 pound cylinders, burned on level 2 for 14 hours on 1/4 tank.

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2013, 01:32:26 PM »
Thanks for the info on the propane heaters.

What im hoping is that the kero will be cheaper in the long run.(fuel vs btu cost)

The most challenging part was locating the best spot for the Kero heater. Ive settled in the living room not the hallway. Keep the heater away from any thermostat for the central air.

Im getting great results using the ionizer as it cuts the smell from the burner.

Ive been able to cut the central ac running time, using this kero heater. Im happy :)

Here are some pics of the vaporiser that covers the wick-











JW


JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2013, 02:16:39 PM »
Ok, last one promise :)





The fire ring is about 8 in dia. When it burns it smells like an unscented candle, or a paraffin lamp with a wick. Its not bad.


JW
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 02:23:57 PM by JW »

Mary B

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2013, 03:23:57 PM »
That design has been around 20 years and is identical to what I heated my house with for a couple years until I could afford a furnace. They can burn dirty if you get bad kero or if the wick needs cleaning.

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2013, 03:45:55 PM »
Quote from: MaryAlana
That design has been around 20 years

So far so good, not had any problems, and im using 1K kero. I lucked out there, the gas station just up the street. Its a "Shell gas station" convenient supply.

This has been one large test run, if a big ice storm hits. So im prepared.

Ive got my standby equipment situation in place, if the power goes out here, there's no heat except for the gear ive got on standby. Having 5 gallons of kero will run for days.

JW


XeonPony

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2013, 08:05:02 PM »
add 2 tea spoons of isopropyle alcohol, it helps with the wick and you adjust it so there is no fire over shooting the top, you want a light blue flame out the top at most. In that pic you are over burning and that's when you get the sooting.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2013, 01:26:39 PM »
Thanks for the tip, I will work on that. Never thought about adding a litttle bit of isopropyl alcohol either.

JW
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 01:39:00 PM by JW »

slapstick

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2013, 02:08:05 PM »
Are you using a CO2/ carbon monoxide detector ? That gas is heavy and will lay close to the floor, If you have a basement you will find it in their. Safety first.... would hate to wake up dead :o ???

That heater can and will kill people if not ventilated with fresh air!
I am guessing it run on 2 US gallon every 24 hours or so?  so from 4$ to 5$ per gallon that would be about .333 cents to .416 cents per hour to run.
I stopped running my Monitor Kerosene/Diesel  heater, was costing me to much to run at that fuel price. It was GREAT when the fossil fuel was down around 1$ to about 2.5$. After that I started scratching my head thinking I was duped with the style of heater. Kinda like a smoker or an Alcoholic addicted to something cheap and good that was now costing me more then they wanted.
I don't know maybe its just me but I kicked the habit. { using fossil fuels to heat my house that is } Still love my beer 8)
Trying to think in the 6th dimension.

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2013, 02:44:25 PM »
Hey there Slapstick,

I do have a "CO" moniter, even so we wont run the heater over night. Mainly is when I get home from work with the cental air heat off all day.At night we rely on the central air.

XeonPony,

I have ispected the burner plate on the kero heater and it is burning with a strong blue flame, just under the orange flame, you cant get a good picture with the camera.

About the isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol. It says on the bottle %70 alcohol, I fear the remaining %30 percent is water. I know rubbing alcohol is water soluble, whereas kerosene is not.

Would adding rubbng alcohol leave water in the tank after so many applications?(adding to the kero)

If I used automotive "dry gas additive" from the local auto parts store instead, it should leave the water risk out of the equation?

If I got water in the tank I would dread getting it out...

JW
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 03:42:52 PM by JW »

oztules

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2013, 04:37:39 PM »
Your rubbing alcohol will actually remove any water in the tank, as it's chemical structure allows it to dissolve oil products with it's non-polar end, and water with it's polar end...... like soap ... both oil and water..... Water is a polar molecule, and fuel is non-polar... so won't dissolve/mix easily  (immiscible) (except emulsions I suppose)   without a soap like (bipolar) intermediary.

It is actually used as a fuel tank dryer, as it will dissolve the water in the fuel tank... into the fuel itself, (allow it then to mix with the fuel)... from there it gets burnt in the usual fashion, (direct injection, carby etc.)

Most small C alcohols can do this, but as the carbon number increases, their miscibility decreases.



..................oztules



Flinders Island Australia

Mary B

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2013, 04:48:07 PM »
The light orange flame ring s actually accurate for that style heater. Manual on mine said that was when it was burning the most efficient.

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2013, 06:25:43 PM »
Hi All,

"this housing"(for the wick) is upside down in this picture. inside the housing. When the unit is in operation there is a blue flame-







This next image is of the top of the housing placed in the unit. This is where the yellow flames spill out on the outer diameter, of that bright aluminum coated steel disk.

JW

XeonPony

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2013, 08:16:21 PM »
huh with the Kerosun you get the peak efficiency and heat where there is barely any yellow flame just a good blue ring around the top of the spreader plate

JW: The other 20% is usually glycerin you want pure isopropyle alcohol
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2013, 05:51:49 PM »
Here's a pic of my carbon monoxide (CO) detecter





The CO detector can be used to tune the kero heater' I had to turn down the wick a little to get the CO carbon monoxide monitor to shut off.

JW

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2013, 07:09:18 PM »
I've now found that the best place to locate the CO detector is in the Kitchen. Also the central air  and this helps circulate the air with the CO.

Also Im sure the detector will alarm if the CO reading go's above spec's

So far so good, but we definity have this heater in place, so if theres an ice storm or something when Im stranded with no power, Ive got the kero heater..

The CO detector is now inplace.


JW

slapstick

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2013, 12:41:50 AM »
Have you ever tried to run Biodiesel in this heater?
Just a thought... :) A lot cheaper the any other fuel.... wonder if it would work.
Trying to think in the 6th dimension.

JW

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Re: Offset Heat bill with kero
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2013, 08:25:19 AM »
Hi Gabriel,

I think diesel or bio-diesel will burn "dirty" The manual for the heater states use 1-K kerosene only. I think those other fuels will cause problems with the wick.

Were having a lot of fun with the heater now. Once its preheated and burning clean, and you turn on the central air, heating, I can get my place up to 83*F in like 20 minutes.

The kero heater only outputs 23,000 btu, I was looking to supplement my heat and it appears to have worked out. Im running the central air heat a lot less, so im hoping to get the heating bill lower.


JW
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 08:39:42 AM by JW »