Advice on Restoring Edison Cell Array

[NIFEinME]

Hey Azsun, thanks for the update.  Glad to hear you are keeping at it.

A few questions if you don't mind:
1. How did you end up heating the electroylyte?  Did you keep it heated during the restoration process?

2. Did you use fresh electrolyte during the restoration?  Do you happen to know the specific gravity of the electrolyte you used?

3. When you dumped the restoration electrolyte and/or the rinse distlled water did it look dirty enough to surmise that the restoration had forced gunk out of the plates?


On my side I've recently mixed a batch of fresh electrolyte and assembled an array of 20 of my best cells.  I experimented with a forklift battery charger, and brought the array up to about 33 volts.  However, the charger was a 440volt, three phase unit which I was trying to power from 120v single phase using a 4 to 1 step up transformer.  I measured 435 volts at output taps, but the charger would only ouput a measly 10 to 15 amps.

The charger was rated at 180 amps using three parallel transformers, so I hoped it could output 60 amps using a single transformer.  As I didn't have good luck getting nearly that much amperage, I returned it to where I acquired it from.  I wonder if the voltage would have risen higher if the charger could have provided more current. . .I have to assume so.

So, I'm still in search of a good charger.  I'm thinking more of going to an Outback VFX3524, which would give me the proper current, and degree of control in charging alone with a wealth of data logging.  However, I'm hesitant to drop $2k just to prove out some old batteries.

Any suggestions for a cheaper and effective charging set up would be very welcome!  Once I get my charging approach squared away, I plan to begin restoring the cells as per the patent instructions.


Thanks again for the update Azsun, hope to hear more about your progress.

[AzSun]

All the published electrolyte formulas are roughly the same. They make no reference to specific gravity. According to a patent, Edison used what amounts to 2500 G Water, 525 G KOH, 50 G LIOH. Sorry, not going to recommend a method to heat a lye solution to 200F as the patent recommends.  All I will say is the charging process did not do it and I didn't use fire. As for the battery charger, I ran into the same problem you did.. cost.  There are a number of articles on the web that show how to make a welder out of a microwave oven transformer. I used a variation of that. (Added diodes and a variable transformer) It is only for charging one cell at a time. You can get 70 amps out of a rewound, 1800 watt microwave transformer. Due to high ambient temperatures, I limit mine to 30 - 35 amps depending on the ambient. As these old cells all have different characteristics, charging them on an individual basis is the way to go when evaluating improvement gains. This cell was well rinsed a little over a year ago. I was surprised how much additional black material came out of it after the process. Being a sealed unit, I have no way of knowing exactly where it came from. It could have been from the rubber separators, negative iron pockets, or the positive element.     

[nifeman]

So how is the reconditioning process going now? It has been a while since we got any updates!

[nifeman]

Bill Blake wrote:

"Always remember that Zapp Works reconditioned THOUSANDS of old Ni-Fe plates"

My advise is simple. Call Zapp works and talk with Stephen or Hank and ask them exactly how they "reconditioned" there old original nickel iron battery plates. My understanding in talking with Stephen is that they bought about 3 semi loads of old cells from a guy in New York and now has run out of old cells. So now they are in the process of trying to make cells from scratch.

Since they are no longer reconditioning old cells I would think they have nothing to lose by telling you exactly what to do.

If you find out please post the information, I have a friend myself have some old Edison cells that he would like to know how to restore them and I am 100% sure there are many others out there wanting to know that information as well. Good luck!

[NIFEinME]

Hi nifeman, thanks for your interest.

Sadly, not much success to report on my end.

I have found a 36 volt golf cart charger for my 20 cell array with fresh electrolyte.  It only pushes 15 to 20 amps into the array.  At this point, I have charged this array 3 times, but have not gotten the voltage to rise above 33 volts.  Individually, all cells show a 1.3 to 1.4 voltage when at rest.  I have no reason to think that any individual cell is preventing the array from achieving the desired 1.85 volts per cell on forming charge (or 37 volts for the array). 

It leaves me to question if this constant current charger is pushing enough amperage to overcome the internal resistance of the cells.  The other possibility I feel most likely is that the cell plates have become saturated with carbonate particles, and that the cells need to be reconditioned before their voltage will rise to the specified forming charge level.

My next step is to rewire my test load.  Since I was previously using a 12 volt array, I had wired the DC bulbs into parallel.  Now that I have a nominally 24 volt array, I need to rewire it into a series-parallel configuration so I don't drive the bulbs with too much voltage.  Once I do so, I can run some proper charge-discharge tests on the array to see if it improves in final charged voltage and/or amp-hours discharged (I will arbitrarily stop discharge tests at 1volt per cell, or 20 volts for the array).

Thanks to AZsun for the thoughts on  creating the single cell charger, and other info.  I have looked into the welder builds you described.  I think I can replicate this, and am on the lookout for an old microwave to salvage the transformer from.

Since I have a charger that does ~6 volts with enough amperage, I may stick with that and try to recondition 3 cells at a time.  My biggest obstacle is figuring out how to heat the electrolyte and pour it.  I agree with AZsun that this is a delicate and dangerous process and should be done carefully and thoughtfully.

I am busy with summer projects at this point, and will report back after the weather has turned and I have more time to proceed with the cells. 

Thanks to all for the continued interest, and as always feedback, thoughts and constructive criticisms are welcomed.


Thanks.