Author Topic: Possible re-arrangement of Controls section... (Read 4030 times)

DamonHD · « **on:** March 19, 2013, 03:52:32 AM »

Hi,

We apparently have the OK from the Dans to rearrange the Controls section to avoid dropping microcontroller stuff down the cracks.

There are a couple of issues here:

1) It's not just electricity that microcontrollers apply to.

2) Making a deeply-nested category may be confusing.

So maybe we could move Controls to top level and move all the existing content into a sub-section called Electricity,
and add "Microcontroller" and "Other" and maybe "Heat" sections beside it. So if the microcontroller is the focus of the design it could go in the "Microcontroller" section, else the best match from the others.

I'm sure that's not optimal, so I'm interested to hear other ideas!

Rgds

Damon

ghurd · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2013, 09:26:51 AM »

I agree microcontrollers should, or could, have their own section.

Typical 'controls' topics are similar to residential electrical wiring.
Micro controllers topic are similar to computer programming.

'Other" would be enough? Heat and water are not very active with regular topics.
Separate sections for controlling heat, water, other, may be a waste of space?

G-

DamonHD · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2013, 09:42:31 AM »

OK, thanks.

"Controls" top level?

Next level "Microcontrollers" and "Other"?

Where would existing posts in the current "Controls" go? In "Other"?

Rgds

Damon

JW · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2013, 06:16:48 PM »

Quote

So maybe we could move Controls to top level and move all the existing content into a sub-section called Electricity,

Thats not possible...

If you want another section like the one I set up this morning, that is the best your going to get. theres just no way to configure that with SMF

JW

XeonPony · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2013, 02:12:35 PM »

I agree with JW I like the Idea of a simple catch all forum labled simply "Microcontrollers" then in that could be two simple dedicated catagories of "Solar tracking" & Environmental control" as that can include water/heat/cool/

then all the rest just in the main heading of the microcontrollers

Main body ;
Microcontrollers
Sub ;
Solar tracking
Sub ;
Environmental controls
"every thing ells"

JW · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2013, 05:49:26 PM »

I like the idea, its rather clever, but unless anyone on the forum can confirm this feature already being used here on the forum, we need to know, or there may be a mod for this.

I recommend that someone does some investigation on the SMF website. Sometimes theres a mod that will allow the function, other times what is wanted has to be made custom, like we did with the recent "Topics" function above "Recent posts" column.

Lets start with that. Do some investigation on the "SMF" community site as to what youre wanting. If nothing is there we can talk to Matt.

JW

David HK · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2013, 08:15:50 PM »

As soon as a micro-controller section appears I have an interesting article to display regarding a micro-controller for 8 sensors that monitor my solar hot water system.

Its been working since ~ 2004 and tells me a lot about how solar hot water heaters (mine is what the Americans call a batch type) work.

Dave in HK

OperaHouse · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2013, 03:23:14 AM »

I think it is all generic. Articles will show what platforms are available, software methodology and typical circuits. My chest fridge post would apply to a solar hot water heater, battery monitor, pump control, and panel regulator just as well. All these just take a few line changes to implement. It should be about whats out there and how easy it is to implement. If anyone makes a direct copy, they have lost the point. It shouldn't get too filled up. A few days ago I did a board search for some old projects others had done. In four pages of results only my chest fridge showed up. That is an example of how hard it is to find some of these old projects. I will re edit the chest fridge post, add some updates, remove the chit chat and post it in that section. It is a good basic tutorial on how to use the UNO. From past experience I can't see this section getting more than ten projects a year

DamonHD · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2013, 04:02:12 AM »

JW: to aid my understanding, which particular parts (other than the unicorns and antigravity!) of what I asked for aren't possible?

Can we have a top-level (ie not under electricity) Microcontrollers?

Can we move existing posts into it or a new sub-category?

It sounds like there may be no need for subcategories under Microcontrollers, though my inner librarian tells me that we may regret that later.

Rgds

Damon

ghurd · « **Reply #9 on:** March 21, 2013, 10:15:50 AM »

Quote from: OperaHouse on March 21, 2013, 03:23:14 AM

All these just take a few line changes to implement.

That was my point earlier.
The difference between writing code (or knowing how, or wanting to learn how), and wiring a float switch to a water tank's remote pump?
Both controls, but far different animals.

I see a lot of the low interest in microcontrollers being a vast majority of members and readers do not have so much excess power they need to, or can, stage loads like fridges and water pumps.

If the typical member or reader did manage to have some substantial extra power, it would be easier for most people to build my little timer circuit, or 2 or 3 of them, and there was almost 0 interest in that.
G-

JW · « **Reply #10 on:** March 21, 2013, 05:12:02 PM »

Quote

Can we have a top-level (ie not under electricity) Microcontrollers?

Yes, this would be "a whole new catagory" im going to call it Microcontrollers. I can undo this easy.

As far as moving posts and topics it would be done easily as we can do this with no problem, If we get that far I will advise via PM.

JW

OperaHouse · « **Reply #11 on:** March 22, 2013, 05:44:55 AM »

WHOA..............What has happened?

So we had a nice simple section for microcontrollers and now we have a whole heading with Controllers for Dump Loads. Fieldlines just doesn't get it. You just can't slice and dice this into sections. It is all connected. Ironic that the people who will never post in this section will be the ones who decide how it is set up. I was just livid when I saw that new catagory at 3AM. This is why people with forward thinking ideas are driven away from fieldlines. It should be

Microcontrollers
Projects, Platforms, Sode and interfacing.

Keep it a free for all for everything. It is all connected.

JW · « **Reply #12 on:** March 22, 2013, 08:28:24 AM »

What were doing is easily reversible.

Quote

So we had a nice simple section for microcontrollers

I was happy with that to, but others didnt like it that way. Now

Quote

Can we have a top-level (ie not under electricity) Microcontrollers?

I think im giving up at this point.

JW

DamonHD · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2013, 12:10:04 PM »

OK, I see we seem to have invoked the demons of cat herding.

I suggest that we stick with the simple top-level Microcontrollers category that we have now, and possibly tweak the name and description but keep it generic.

Again, suggestions welcome. I'm not sure if my super-powers run to adjusting the wording, but I see no hurry in any case.

I'll post something in there to warm it up.

Rgds

Damon

SparWeb · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2013, 02:53:56 PM »

...because this hasn't gone in enough different directions already...

Would you include data-logging with the subject of Microcontrollers? That would be the way I got into them, personally, and I used a PicAxe. Others data-log with a HOBO that they bought and wired up. Where does that go?

What seems to be coming about as a rough definition of "Controls" vs "Microcontrols" is this:

Controls:
Power regulation systems for managing or optimizing the energy produced by RE (such as battery charge controllers, but not limited to just electricity because it can also mean thermostats and valves in thermal systems). Another way of thinking about it "ANALOG". Also: commercial technology bought by the user for their RE system.

DIY Electronic Controls and Microcontrollers:
Systems to monitor, manage, or optimize the energy produced or consumed by RE (primarily electrical/electronic in nature, employing computer programming and/or producing data files and logs for the user to interpret). This implies that it is "DIGITAL". Also note that these projects are built from raw electronics and/or open-source computer/controllers by the user.

Overlap in these subjects will be INEVITABLE. Don't go punishing people for posting about the MuController-based charge controller in the Controls section, if you don't have to.

The only benefit in this division IMHO is that the site will be more visible to Google bots, hence easier to find in searches, and maybe attract more users. But as long as you're doing it, please make sure there's a Sticky to explain what the division is, and also tidy up some of the Stickies that are now in Controls, but contribute more to Microcontrols now.

David HK · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2013, 05:48:58 PM »

I too was under the impression that Micro-Controllers as a Forum topic would be all embracing rather than one exclusively for Dump Loads.

Sparweb makes a good point about micro controllers being used for data logging which is exactly what mine does on my solar hot water generator. As things stand, Dump Loads prohibits me from posting an article, so this is the Forums loss and no gain for any reader.

It is odd to read from JW that "others didn't like it that way". Who are these hidden others?

I thought this Forum once possessed pragmatism and common sense, but it now seems to have become bureaucratic and constrained.

Lets see some good sense prevail.

David in Hong Kong

JW · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2013, 06:02:24 PM »

Quote

It is odd to read from JW that "others didn't like it that way". Who are these hidden others?

It was Damon, first we made a sub-section in the controls section, what was actually being requested was a high level category.

Its tough to work thru stuff like this, keep talking guys, its helping..

JW

David HK · « **Reply #17 on:** March 22, 2013, 07:13:34 PM »

Perhaps we are all being pedantic and each individual interprets 'micro controller' to mean what it does to each and every individual.

Micro Controller seems to be an all embracing term used widely on the Internet to imply Programmable Integrated Circuit. Some of them really do control things of every description and others perform a function that simply monitors a situation. No doubt other scribes could add many other descriptions.

At the end of the day does it really matter if Micro Controllers is a sub section of Controls, or, a Forum item that stands on its own. Come what may, programmable logic is here to stay and will be widely used in connection with renewable energy.

After this note, I shall give up writing opinion and wait until things sort themselves out.

David in HK

David HK · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2013, 07:16:45 PM »

Bugger, no sooner do I post a note, then I scroll up the page to HOME and see Data Loging.

Please note the typo and it should be Logging.

Dave in HK

JW · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2013, 07:49:12 PM »

fixed

JW

DamonHD · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2013, 07:24:34 AM »

Good, we're making progress. Thanks for the typo spotting David HK. Thanks for the forum creation JW.

OK, so shall we rename that dump load section to 'General' or add a new 'General' section to which my post should then be moved, for example? (Or something else.)

Rgds

Damon

DamonHD · « **Reply #21 on:** March 23, 2013, 08:22:14 AM »

Well, it looks like I can at least edit text for headings and so on (climbs into Spandex suit), so shall I rename the dump load section to "General" and put in a suitable description?

Rgds

Damon

JW · « **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2013, 09:33:34 AM »

Yes its easy to do, tell me exactly what you want as far as the text, if you need help, we can easily make any changes or add more sub sections.

JW

DamonHD · « **Reply #23 on:** March 23, 2013, 10:49:28 AM »

OK, while I have a couple of minutes I shall adjust the first sub-section to "General" but I am more than happy to revert it if necessary.

Rgds

Damon

JW · « **Reply #24 on:** March 23, 2013, 01:24:58 PM »

I think it looks good, Im glad this is working out : )

JW

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Author Topic: Possible re-arrangement of Controls section... (Read 4030 times)