Author Topic: Best pv for my $$  (Read 5430 times)

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petect

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Best pv for my $$
« on: January 19, 2013, 12:06:55 PM »
Hi
I'd appreciate any thoughts regarding best the pv panels, controllers, inverters, etc for the buck. How do the cheap Harbor freight - type or other Chineese componants compare to the more expensive stuff. I assume you get what you pay for, but what's the difference? Efficiency, output, longevity, all of the above?

I want to put a small non-grid connected system together to handle a few essentials (mostly the well pump) when the power goes out, and will run some things with it when the power is on.

Thanks
Pete


dnix71

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2013, 01:50:17 PM »
Harbor Freight is not inexpensive anymore. My 15 watts panels from the 45 watt kit have held up well, but the price is now much higher than simply going on eBay and picking some 100 watt panels [price + shipping = lowest]. Plenty now for less than 1/2 of HF price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-Two-100-W-Watt-100W-Photovoltaic-PV-Solar-Panel-Module-12V-RV-Boat-/400334806535?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d35d05e07 Double these up to get the voltage to 36 under load. They come with mc4 connectors already. $1.6/watt including shipping.

A lot of not so reputable deals on eBay, though. This guy is a jerk. He is selling the $30 Turnigy from Hobby King for $60. I have bought from 3 from Hobby King direct. HK price is $24 plus $5.50 mail packet shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-24-36-48-Volt-130-Solar-Panel-Grid-Tie-Inverter-Watt-Meter-Power-Analyzer-100-/370688436630?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564ec0a996

I am not completely happy with my BZ MPPT's but they work better than a simple voltage cutoff charge controller. You need some kind of charge controller to at least prevent overcharging. Cheap is better than nothing and will save your batteries.

Stay away from ones like this, the max input volatge is only 40. To get some charging in low light panels should be series doubled at least.
http://www.instapark.com/solar-power-panels/mppt-30-amp-solar-power-charge-controller-450-watt-at-12v-900.html?gclid=CNf1rqiH9bQCFRRbnAod7WwAOQ

If you have the money a Xantrex or Morningstar MPPT is pretty hard to beat.

http://www.solar-electric.com/xaxwmp60amps.html?gclid=CImoosqI9bQCFQU5nAodd1MAww less than $500 is a great price for a very good MPPT.

BlueSky, Xantrex and others have external comm ports for remote monitoring if that is desirable. My BZ doesn't.

Mary B

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2013, 04:06:56 PM »
www.solarblvd.com has panels as cheap as $.70 a watt by the pallet and $.80 singles.

petect

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 10:11:13 AM »
Thanks for the information!

MaryAlana
The prices seem good. Is this a good outfit to deal with - have you bought from them?
Thanks
Pete

bart

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 10:23:06 AM »
    If your close to southern Missouri you might try this:
http://springfield.craigslist.org/for/3545122237.html

clockmanFRA

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2013, 12:50:43 PM »
Regards:-

"If your close to southern Missouri you might try this:
http://springfield.craigslist.org/for/3545122237.html
"

Panels:-    "Renewable Energy Corp. ASA, a solar- energy group grappling with falling demand, will stop funding its Norwegian solar-wafer division and plans to file for the insolvency of the unit after shutting down all production."   
From, RenewableEnergyWorld.com, August 2012.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

dnix71

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2013, 02:13:19 PM »
Sun Electric in Miami has cheap solar by the pallet, too.
http://www.sunelec.com/
The catch is shipping costs. If someone advertises 70 cents/watt that is not going to include shipping and insurance. If you need pallet loads of panels, that's okay, but if you only need 4 or 6 panels you can probably do better on eBay with a shipping included offer.

Mary B

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2013, 03:44:19 PM »
Bought my panels and mounting hardware from solarblvd. Good company, good communications on shipping (typically slow, they are selling panels that are on the boat). Fast replacement after a panel arrived smashed, emailed them a picture they shipped the new one and requested pickup of the bad.

Larsmartinxt

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 04:00:23 PM »

Panels:-    "Renewable Energy Corp. ASA, a solar- energy group grappling with falling demand, will stop funding its Norwegian solar-wafer division and plans to file for the insolvency of the unit after shutting down all production."   
From, RenewableEnergyWorld.com, August 2012.

I used to work for REC at a solar cell manufacturing plant in Norway. Sad story as a lot of people lost their job. Can't beat Chinese panels on price :P

clockmanFRA

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 04:33:10 PM »
I sorry to hear that Larsmartinxt.

The Chinese maybe good price, but boy oh boy is their quality control dropping.

I have had 5Kw worth PV and been recently searching different Chinese manufacturers. Talking to some importers in the Uk, each batch they get has to be carefully inspected.
One month a good brand is okay, the next month the same brand is awful.

In the end I went for a brand that Installers and importers felt was of a satisfactory quality.
I have not mentioned Chinese brand names as I believe they change them depending on where they are going, US, Europe etc. 

I took the opportunity just before Christmas to get as much as I could afford, based on my questions and feedback, and especially as the Chinese have closed about 25% of their PV manufacturing plants and the quality issues.

I am happy to tell you the brand names good and bad if the Moderators allow? I would be tactfull.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

DamonHD

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2013, 04:57:04 PM »
Go on then, names and part numbers, but please do be tactful!  B^>

Rgds

Damon
Podcast: https://www.earth.org.uk/SECTION_podcast.html

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petect

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2013, 09:45:15 AM »
Thank you to everyone for your comments.

Clockman
"I am happy to tell you the brand names good and bad if the Moderators allow? I would be tactfull."

It looks like you have a green light from the Moderators.  Please DO tell what you think of brands.

Pete

Frank S

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2013, 12:16:57 PM »
When telling about one brand or another whether in your opinion they are good or bad  it helps to have some hard facts to back up your analysis.
 Many things work for some people but do not perform well for others.
 Yes many manufactures quality goes up and down at times while many brands or brand names are not sold by the manufactures but are private labeled to the distribution company. the source of the components are often not provided by one manufacture to a producer are often from many different manufactures.   
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

clockmanFRA

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2013, 02:05:12 PM »
petect, Frank S is correct.

However, my information is from several sources and from folk who know about PV Panels, But, these are still my general opinions.

Pv Panels
I have various assortment of Pv Panels from 1987, Amorphous, Mono, Poly etc .

My recent 3kw of panels I collected at the end of 2011, at the time they were best quality and very well made but were classed as SECONDS as they all had manufacturing faults when assembled in the UK. 
These were 17off SHARP 185w, 995mm x 45mm x 1400mm at £1700 or 0.54GBP per watt.  The majority of these seconds had scratches on the rear and just needed some good silicone squeezed on them.

My recent search was for 2Kw for my latest Tracker design, (a stretched version of my successful  1.5Kw, And No, I am not comerciall). http://www.echorenovate.com/solar-energy.php

I started  searching/asking friends in the PV industry, forum members etc. in Sept 2012.
Now I had seen some Canadian Solar 250w panels in 2011, (made in China) but the price was 0.72GBP per watt  I asked an installer/importer about them, “yes the price is now good but the quality is bad with very obvious faults and our company will not use them”  this in Oct 2012.

Panasonic and Sharp have seen their prices come down to 1.00GBP per watt, but still far too expensive for me.  Especially on a new design of tracker where if they are blown away in a storm I do not lose too much money.

Comments and prices from friends.
1.
"Panel prices have come down very significantly since the PV market has collapsed in the UK - as you can probably imagine!
New, 1st quality Kinve 250W panels are £150+vat ie 0.60GBP/watt +vat. These are probably the best on the market, and as they come from China, very good prices. They're also fully certified ISO, TUV, MCS etc. The slightly smaller 235W Kinve panels are better value at 0.48GBP/watt+vat (also certified)
Sharp Seconds, the biggest I can get is 235W, which are 95GBP each - and of course there's no vat to add to the prices of the seconds. If you can't claim vat back, then these prices are pretty attractive. If you can claim vat back, then the Kinve 235s are the best option".
2.
"I'd not normally do this, but seeing as you're experimenting with self-designed trackers etc. I'd not mind if you wanted to order the panels through us from our suppliers/importers  at our trade rates (which I believe to be around the best going) and I'd simply get them delivered straight to you on pallet from our supplier.  124GBP  0.496GBP per panel Yingli Panda 250 mono.
120GBP per panel Upsolar 250Wp mono.  115GBP per panel Renesola 250Wp poly.   105GBP per panel Jetion 245Wp poly."


3.  Prices direct from a UK Importer who mostly supplies Grid Tied Installers.
"ET Solar P660250 now only 0.44GBP/W
ET Solar M660250BB now only 0.49pGBP/W (Black on Black)
ET Solar P660230 now only 0.39GBP/W
Canadian Solar CS6P250 now only 0.46GBP/W
Panasonic HIT 235W now only 0.80GBP/W"

These prices are good but I was just not willing to trust the quality that they would ship me, as they come direct out of the shipping container from China.
Note, I was actually at an Importers warehouse, for another reason, when a China shipping container arrived, in one batch they were awfull with wrong sizes and seconds just thrown in to get the manefest numbers up.

So in the end I bought 9 panels of YINGLI PANDA 250 Mono at 0.496GBP/watt, 2.25KW for 1116GBP, 990mm x 40mm x 1650mm 19kg each.
  http://www.yinglisolar.com/assets/uploads/products/downloads/PANDA_60_Cell_Series_EN.pdf

Trust this helps, but please remember this is now and in another Month os so, the stuff could again change.
 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 03:32:23 PM by clockmanFRA »
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

petect

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2013, 11:59:28 AM »
clockmanFRA

Thank you sir!
Pete

Photowhit

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2013, 11:27:04 AM »
I don't know where in the world you are, but I don't think I would buy any charge controller with a, capacity over 30 amps, other than a Midnite Classic. The people at Midnite, were with Xantrex, started with outback, and are now startig Midnite. They have announced that this year they will come out with a module for their Midnite classic that will measure the charge going into the battery across you shunt. This is something long awaited for in the off grid industry as you can accuratly charge your battery while it is under load.

If your in the United States, Northern Arizona Wind and Sun has the best prices I've found.
The Classic lite which has most of the features of the regular classic, but doesn't have a screen, runs $500 and allows for the information that would be on the screen available over a network cable. They already have a 'follow me' feature allowing multiple charge controllers to share information.

On Panels I've done business with Sunelec.com 7 years ago and 1 1/2 years ago, they have been know for poor customer service and the best prices. They have always delivered for me and even replaced a panel damaged in shipping, even though it was bought FOB Miami, normally this would be the buyer's responsablity. I've heard Solarblvd has better shipping prices, but I've never done business with them. They do post panels with a vmp of 26-31 volts as 24volt panels. I feel this shows a poor understanding of solar as they will not work properly with PWM charge controller indiviually to charge a 24 volt battery.
Home system- 20 - 200W Evergreen blems, 2 Classic Lites, E-Panel up! 14 Suntech 185W in spare room.
Cabin system- 8-115watt 12V, 6 - 170-5watt 24v, Pulse/Trace PC250 Power Center, 800AH 24V forklift Batt, ProSine 1800 watt (24v) inverter.
Odds and extras, Rouge CC, 80-4/5watt 6v panels

XeonPony

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Re: Best pv for my $$
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2013, 12:51:39 PM »
Sounds like the classic is all most as functional as the morning star mppt 60.

So far I much prefer the Morning star due to the extensive communication with both computer and other morning star gear
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