Author Topic: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed  (Read 1593 times)

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DanG

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Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« on: May 29, 2022, 02:23:56 PM »
Seeking best practices (and Code compliant) advice to finish a living space in an existing pole shed -

A Minnesota 36x60 shed/shop sitting on 10 acres of well forested land, the building is two sheds sharing an open common wall -- NO blueprints or as-built drawings or notes exist, it has 200 amp electrical service...

The low roof side is 900 sqft with steel siding ceiling and ancient R30 cellulose insulation. Walls are exterior steel siding direct to girts, no sheathing or vapor barrier. I really* don’t want to pull the steel off ( really .).

To start - I was thinking 1-1/2” polyiso insulation laid on back of siding between 2x6 girts THEN complete coverage from the inside with plywood sheathing for strength, sound & mouse proofing & ensuring gaps among the 6x6 posts get sealed --- then start the framing for interior walls.

I asked a spray-foam insulation guy to look it over, a great price but he was like slap tyvek up then worry about everything else later - how to keep it mouse & draft proof, tie in interior walls etc. was beyond him…

Pictures: building front view, unused 20-year-old pex in-floor heating showing wall framing, a view into shop area - and for giggles two sunshine maps for longest/shortest days defining cleared area required with my 95-foot obstacle trees..

So, how to proceed?

((Forum software refuses to upload .jpeg photos from this iPhone, requires .jpg formet, I'll look for workaround later))

Mary B

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2022, 02:56:27 PM »
Check with your county zoning first. They are the last say in what can be done. When I built my pole garage it had an insulated floor, 8" in the walls, steel liner panel inside. I didn't heat it this winter and the coldest it got was 28f. I am down in the SW corner of MN so had plenty of sub zero days. Hardest part to seal is the overhead door, rest is pretty draft free. Even went double pane windows! Attic space got R50 blown in insulation. If I would ever need to turn half into a house I would do electric heat under a click in place vinyl wood floor and natural gas forced air to add on to it. Electric in floor is just to keep floor comfortable.

DanG

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2022, 04:26:22 PM »
Thanks MaryB... Yeah, speak to Code troopers, wah.  :)

and I need/want 5/8 or 3/4 wood sheathing, spray foam can go on inside the plywood... Property is in a Tornado Alley - looking at the nearby 20+ 100-year-old oaks snapped off 12 or 16 feet off the ground says overbuild where wimmen & children sleep, storm twister skipped-passed over me and got a church & Ford dealer 4 miles away last Fall...

SO, not pulling the siding to sheath it in the traditional way, no sir.

Adding sheathing "inside", anyone got hints or clues to share?

If its between a new iphone and R-9 of extra insulation, the Apple lost a sale.


DanG

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2022, 04:30:18 PM »
Photo error:

4859930E-F2EC-4A81-AFD2-B1DE49823722.jpeg.
You cannot upload that type of file. The only allowed extensions are doc,gif,jpg,mpg,pdf,png,txt,zip,eprt.

DanG

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2022, 05:13:05 PM »
Screeshot saved to file & renamed, supposed PNG from image info

DanG

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2022, 05:15:59 PM »
'more attachments' fails, one per post.

DanG

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2022, 05:17:57 PM »
Sticky 'the message body left empty' error even on restart & refresh..

DanG

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2022, 05:36:54 PM »
Non-empty text area, only one attachment allowed

bigrockcandymountain

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2022, 05:37:35 PM »
If it was me I would do 1-1/2 rigid foam between the girts like you suggested.  Then I would blow in cellulose between the posts.  You'd have to add some framing but you need that anyway to sheath the inside.  Probably just a 2x4 16" centers with the inside flush with the inside of the posts.

Then you can use drywall for sheathing the inside and holding back the cellulose.  The cellulose can be installed with a special blower behind netting or do what i did and blow it in 4' at a time while you tamp it from the top by hand.  The last bit has to be done from the attic and really sucks.  Can be done quickly with any blower for cheap though.

I can't say enough good about dense pack cellulose.  It's cheap and recycled and stops air movement.  10x better value than spray foam in my opinion. 

14848-0

Do 6 mil poly and drywall as usual on the inside.  Seal all your wiring boxes etc with vapour varrier boxes etc.  I like acoustic sealant for the screws of the drywall too.  I'm pretty obsessed with air tightness though.

Rodent control sucks no matter what type of insulation.  Fiberglass being the worst, cellulose is pretty good.  They don't really like it. 

Do what you are doing and if the code inspector finds fault, find another code inspector.  Ha ha that's my best solution there.

That's a beautiful spot.  I hope you post lots of pictures.  The pole barn home has definitley been done before with great success.

DanG

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2022, 05:55:20 PM »
resave & resize ell, then 3rd party software so youse mooks can see pixies :/

DanG

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2022, 06:35:55 PM »
Thanks bigrockcandymountain - hoping you'd yack back for this :)

COVID got a good old guys' kids talking again to unwind fifteen years squabbling over inheritances, so... I bought Ernies pole shed - the last thing he built before age & health clobbered him, so all the bonus ideas from his 80-years got built then sat empty & unattended 12 or 15 years.

Whomever insulated this walked away to leave attic open to common airspace - and the cellulose aged & turned orange on top - the Bromine & salts fire retardants went everywhere, my first time in the shop I saw EVERYTHING was coppery dust coated from 20 years of eaves & ridge vents wind gust movement... Probably helped kill poor Ernie :(

The second time it turned into a hazmat scene, spend a hour inside and next day cough like COVID... Anyhow, bought it in September and spent weeks framing up and closing in attic space - and hours of vacuuming, brooming & leaf blower...

Once upon a time the front rooms floor was mechanically troweled & polished but I'll do 400 or 800 grit burnishing pads on a 20" floor polisher to vanish 20 years of mouse pee, deer guts and concrete salt crystals (and zesty cellulose fire retardant)...

Anyhow, please don't be offended if I reject cellulose, I think I've had a lifetime dosage...




DanG

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2022, 08:26:17 PM »
On the Sun maps - looks like a minimum of 40 or 50 trees need clearing to get three or four hours of midday sun on shortest days, never thought I'd buy uncleared land, a hard job to haul off brush and move/sell firewood - then deal with stumps...  yuck.

Dense pack Fiberglass instead of cellulose - check :)

bigrockcandymountain : your OSB and two-by firring strips look smart, wish I had a pallet of OSB but the new economy had happened before I got my property...

Any chances of a detail photo of window/door framing using the OSB?

Heres a graph of grid power used versus temperature, I'm living in a van with two cats so I used resistance heat a bunch.. We can see clearly where I ran like rabbit to Florida :)


MattM

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2022, 09:41:11 AM »
What could be more varmint-proof than aircrete?  Bug proof and hydrophobic.

Mary B

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2022, 05:06:00 PM »
Sprayed in rodent repellent foam(yes there is such a thing!)

Add girts across the posts to hang your drywall on. Run a vertical support where needed under seams.

When they framed in the doors/windows on my garage they went from the girts and just boxed in a spot, same as you would frame a house...

SparWeb

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2022, 11:43:53 PM »
Since you mentioned code...
You would be asked to make sure there is no air communicated from the garage portion to the dwelling portion.  Carbon monoxide is a killer and there are codes to prevent that from killing your kids in their sleep.

Every jurisdiction is different, so this may not apply, but you can have different snow load requirements on a roof for dwellings and barns.  In fact many jurisdictions allow much reduced roof load requirements than for dwellings.  If you are converting a pole barn, you may need to reinforce the roof.  A similar argument goes for wind loads between dwellings and barns/sheds.

That should be enough from Mr. Wet Blanket here...
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DanG

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Re: Best practices to finish living space in a pole shed
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2022, 07:55:49 PM »
Fourth Day Back:

1900 mile drive from Florida, 21-cents a mile fuel cost, it was 10-cents last November.

Nothing exciting to report, domestic chores & cleanup. Building survived.

Bumble skeeter swarms, hope this is last big hatch.

Sparweb, MaryB & MattM - thank you, yes, I should seek professional help : )