Some (additional) water questions

[jlsoaz]

Hi - a few accumulated questions:

- I was visiting the UK a few years ago when it was pointed out to me that boiling water in the kitchen with a stand-alone plug-in device takes less time, since the voltages are higher.  I boil water in the US with such a pot, and am happy with it, but would it be worth it to see if somehow I could install a 240 Volt plug in my kitchen and task it exclusively to a small water boiler pitcher?  Or is this a bad idea.  In using such pitchers, I am always paranoid about whether a low-quality or broken one will stay on after the water has boiled off and then cause a fire, so I tend to get rid of ones that don't seem good, and unplug them when not in use, regardless of recommendations.

- A tankless water heater was recently recommended to me again.  I had stayed away from this I think because my solar hot water heater requires a tank of some sort anyway, but is there a tried-and-true solution to combining solar hot water with tankless?  I need electric heating during winter months, rainy periods, or when I have visitors.  Maybe tankless can just be added to a system that has a tank with no problem?  Searching my memory, I don't think I was hung up on just the wording (Tank/tankless) but maybe the decision-making here for me was influenced by whatever answers I got from a solar installer.  I'll have to revisit this with them.

- I have a long-standing battle to figure out a better solution to "softening" the water at my house.  Looking back, I see that we discussed this a year ago in the forum, so I'll go back and re-read some of the answers I got at that time.

addendum:

I think some of these projects could get expensive pretty quickly, for me, and so maybe that's contributing to how long it is taking me to make decisions on some of them.  I did recently purchase a piece of equipment to try a new tack on the hard water issues.

[Bruce S]

I've recently been looking into going tankless and have been doing some research , so maybe what I've come up with will help.

I'm going to keep our 20gal water heater, even though the gas to it will be turned off, it will still hold the water.
With the water in the tank coming up to room temp, this water will be 10 - 20 degrees F hotter than coming straight out of the city pipes. Even with our city water pipes being about 3feet under ground(our freeze line is only 18inches), I have been able to measure the incoming temps at 45F , To top off my hydroponics I normally have it sitting for no less than 24 hours to merely warm up. I use city water only if I cannot get anything out of the rain barrels.

To me that equates to having the tankless burn less fuel(gas) to heat the water even quicker, again saving me $$$.

An added plus is the ability to have a tank full of water as a standby for those times when water is hut off for busted water mains (again).

Hope this helps on that part.

The kettle, we use an induction burner to boil water, a whole lot cheaper than having 240Vac installed and has a great many other uses.  . It's all about the efficiency of getting the heat to the water.

[OperaHouse]

I've seen a lot of issues with tankless systems lately. In the fine print it says you have to chemically flush them each year to prevent buildup from hard water.  Go about 5 years with hard water and the flow will stop. If you have a softener that is not an issue. Even tank water heaters have this problem. High heat density elements, and that is most, boil on the surface and deposit scale.  This is what happens in tankless.

We have a hot water dispenser at home and the wife loves it.  Thinking of modifying one for the camp to work on solar.

[Mary B]

If you only need a small amount of boiled water use a drip coffee maker without adding coffee!

[jlsoaz]

I've seen a lot of issues with tankless systems lately. In the fine print it says you have to chemically flush them each year to prevent buildup from hard water.  Go about 5 years with hard water and the flow will stop. If you have a softener that is not an issue. Even tank water heaters have this problem. High heat density elements, and that is most, boil on the surface and deposit scale.  This is what happens in tankless.

We have a hot water dispenser at home and the wife loves it.  Thinking of modifying one for the camp to work on solar.

Hard water is definitely a major issue at my house over 14 years, thanks for the points.

I did recently purchase this and am going to have it installed and experiment to see if it will help me reduce and eliminate my use of a salt-based water "softener".

http://www.ecoflow.co

[jlsoaz]

If you only need a small amount of boiled water use a drip coffee maker without adding coffee!

Thanks, I'll keep an eye open, though I'm happy with the inductive water boiler I've got.  I use it for tea and instant oatmeal and such.

It's not an essential matter, but ever since that conversation in the UK, I keep wondering if my kitchen was outfitted with a higher voltage plug suitable for what they use on kitchen counter tops to boil water in the UK, if I would be able to boil water a bit faster.

[jlsoaz]

I've recently been looking into going tankless and have been doing some research , so maybe what I've come up with will help.

I'm going to keep our 20gal water heater, even though the gas to it will be turned off, it will still hold the water.
With the water in the tank coming up to room temp, this water will be 10 - 20 degrees F hotter than coming straight out of the city pipes. Even with our city water pipes being about 3feet under ground(our freeze line is only 18inches), I have been able to measure the incoming temps at 45F , To top off my hydroponics I normally have it sitting for no less than 24 hours to merely warm up. I use city water only if I cannot get anything out of the rain barrels.

To me that equates to having the tankless burn less fuel(gas) to heat the water even quicker, again saving me $$$.

An added plus is the ability to have a tank full of water as a standby for those times when water is hut off for busted water mains (again).

Hope this helps on that part.

The kettle, we use an induction burner to boil water, a whole lot cheaper than having 240Vac installed and has a great many other uses.  . It's all about the efficiency of getting the heat to the water.

Thanks for the points.  Basically, I have to go to one or two additional solar installers and get a second opinion as to whether a tankless system can "play well" with a conventional solar hot water system.

In terms of geeky at-home energy equations, I don't criticize your interesting strategy of working around the need to heat up the water at least an interim amount, etc., but then, technically, isn't some of the heat energy coming from the energy you put into the air of your house?  Regardless of whether it saves energy or not, it sounds like a solution that, in its way, is a smart solution that works, but in terms of understanding the dollar and BTU net in and net out, I do have to wonder if, overall, energy is actually saved.

 My counter-top water-boiler sounds similar to yours.  For a point of reference it is something like this (though I'm not 100% sure if mine is inductive or conductive).

https://www.amazon.com/Ovente-BPA-Free-Protection-Indicator-KG83B/dp/B00DEPGY7G/ref=sr_1_8?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1520184404&sr=1-8&keywords=water+boiler+kettle

[Bruce S]

That kettle is neat, I like the blue LED lighting of it. the auto shut-off is a good safety feature.

Alas; ours is more like these. https://www.amazon.com/Gourmia-GIC-100-Multifunction-Countertop-Temperature/dp/B017HX1E0M/ref=sr_1_6?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1520260171&sr=1-6&keywords=induction+burner

Regarding the water using the extra air temp to bring it up to a higher temperature than incoming therefore using more energy?
I had thought of this as well, however , I don't think it'll be that way. Our basement air temp pretty much stays the same year-round due to the insulation and the whole below the freeze level thing.

I know there's probably a measurable extra usage, however , I've not seen any small or large blip in our Natural Gas usage, actually with the extra little things we've done around the house , we've used about 10% less than this time last year.

Hope this helps
Bruce S