Author Topic: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project  (Read 149572 times)

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keithturtle

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2015, 04:47:04 PM »
Skid, your persistence is admirable.  Did the most recent high flow exceed that of early December 2014?

Did you place any benchmarks so as to determine if the pedestal foundation has shifted?

Keep up the good work!

Turtle
soli deo gloria

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2015, 09:10:26 PM »
Skid, your persistence is admirable.  Did the most recent high flow exceed that of early December 2014?

Did you place any benchmarks so as to determine if the pedestal foundation has shifted?

Keep up the good work!

Turtle

Yes the river was higher than the previous high water event. We received warning that the upstream hydro dam had to release additional water as they were coming close to their reservoir capacity.

They had a guy monitoring river levels just downstream of our place and released just enough to fill the river to bankfull without spilling over the sides and causing flooding. I'll have to say they did an admirable job as the water was within an inch or two of going over.

Based on that information I will make the two arms that hold the water wheel to the main cantilever pipe a bit longer so I can not only take advantage of the absolute lowest flows, but also tip the wheel out of the water during flood events without having to remove it. It appears the location for the foundation is somewhat protected by the trees along the shore line.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2015, 05:31:41 PM »
Picked up my generator yesterday. 385kg, 7.5Kw, 50rpm permanent magnet. 850 pounds!

I'll start fabbing up the mounts and the rest of the cantilever arm soon, as I have most of the material on hand now. Weather is beautiful outside on the west coast right now...My grass needs cutting already!

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2015, 12:36:40 AM »
Ordered the ABB Aurora 6000W grid tie inverter and 7.2kw wind interface today. I wanted the windy Boy 8000 but support components are no longer available. If I end up generating more juice than what the ABB parts can handle I'll have to double up on the equipment. If nothing else I'll get a good start with this and derate if necessary.

All of the expensive components have been ordered, and I have the material to fab almost everything else up. I'll have to trench my cable in as well.

keithturtle

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #70 on: March 14, 2015, 01:51:58 AM »
Good to see progress

Turtle
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skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2015, 11:33:12 PM »
Laid out the 400 foot power cable to the river, now need to rent a trencher. The cable is 3 conducter armored 6AWG as the generator is 3 phase AC.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2015, 11:37:47 PM »
Picked up the large drive sheave today. 63 inches in diameter with grooves for 3 belts. I'll use a ringfeder to lock it onto the water wheel shaft

keithturtle

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2015, 01:01:16 AM »
Picked up the large drive sheave today. 63 inches in diameter with grooves for 3 belts.

Cha-Ching $!$

You ain't shy about making this work, bro

Turtle
soli deo gloria

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #74 on: March 17, 2015, 01:20:00 AM »
Picked up the large drive sheave today. 63 inches in diameter with grooves for 3 belts.

Cha-Ching $!$

You ain't shy about making this work, bro



Turtle

I should break even in 20 years ;D

I used to spend money modding cars/trucks and eventually selling them for 1/2 of what I put into them not including labor. Building this is just as much fun and I may eventually break even some day...
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 01:26:53 AM by skid »

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #75 on: April 11, 2015, 10:23:15 PM »
I've been busy doing other projects but spent a few hours preparing the embedded support column for installation. I welded a slip-on pipe flange onto the 12" diameter sched 40 pipe, and cut 8 holes to tie it into the rebar in the foundation.

The flange will mate with another flange which will slip over the top of the pipe and allow me to rotate the cantilevered water wheel support pipe in and out of the river. When the support pipe is in position I will bolt the flanges together to lock it into place for operation

The holes in the pipe/column will have the foundation rebar pass right through mid way up the pipe and on the bottm 90 degrees apart. I have inserted sample 1" rebar into the bottom holes and the top holes are 3 feet higher than those and will help form the upper rebar mat in the foundation.They will also prevent any rotation of the column.

Instead of using tie wire for the foundation rebar I plan to weld it all together to make it strong.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 10:27:21 PM by skid »

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2015, 08:29:37 PM »
Finally received my inverter and rectifier from ABB. Now to complete the project I need to:
- Get a several more pieces of steel cut
- Weld up the cantilever
- Redo all the foundation rebar
- Form the foundation
- Pour the foundation
- Trench the power cable
- Splice two pieces of cable
- Install the inverter
- Install the cantilever frame onto the foundation
- Install the water wheel onto the cantilever
- Complete the hydraulics for raising/lowering the wheel
- Go for a test

thirteen

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #77 on: June 08, 2015, 11:40:41 AM »
Sounds like a test about 4:30-5. It is getting closer with each item done. It seems as if your prier planning is paying off. It will feel great once you let the water flow. Looks good from here. I'm sure you have covered it but if the splice will be under ground be sure to measure it off of two places if there is a problem years down the road. Plus a map of the lines running everywhere. Okay now but thirty years from now where was that line. Just an idea to play with or toss. 13
MntMnROY 13

TDC

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #78 on: June 08, 2015, 02:14:07 PM »
Very good idea about mapping the lines.  It would have saved my friend a lot of time!  Pictures or GPS locations are great also. I like pictures of the wiring and plumbing before sheet rock or paneling goes on a wall or ceiling.

keithturtle

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2015, 02:26:32 AM »
Pictures or GPS locations are great also.
That, and possibly a few 5/8" rebar 5' long (frost line) driven into the ground a little below the surface, along, beside the trench.  A compass will deflect to a sunken steel rod, that's how I find survey markers.

You'll get there

Turtle
soli deo gloria

thirteen

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2015, 12:26:11 AM »
Keithturtle
I've tried 3-4 time to find a corner marker. I'll try the compass sounds like it might work for me.  13
MntMnROY 13

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #81 on: July 08, 2015, 01:51:41 AM »
Keithturtle
I've tried 3-4 time to find a corner marker. I'll try the compass sounds like it might work for me.  13

You might want to rent a pin finder. Just don't wear steel toed boots when using it ;D

Got my "Raytech" splice kit today. After reading the instructions I don't think the splice will ever leak or fail. It has 2 heat shrinks for each conductor wire, one inner cover heat shrink for all the conductors, a metal ground for the spiral teck cable armor, and a heat shrink outer cover.

Also recently got my small 12.75 diameter generator sheave, Ringfeder for the large wheel sheave, and the three 8V-1500 belts. Just need a few more pieces and I'll have all the components. Just need to find the time now....

keithturtle

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #82 on: July 10, 2015, 12:38:18 AM »
Just need to find the time now....
I feel your pain.  I've had five days off in the last six weeks.  I could probably pay someone to rebuild the dam. But that would take ALL of the fun out of it. (A new cement mixer sounds like a good investment...)

Turtle, slow
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skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #83 on: October 11, 2015, 09:28:33 PM »
Had a bit of time this weekend. I made up the attachment arms for the water wheel, and fabricated the attachment point for the bearings. I put adjusters on each end so I can align the wheel once it is mounted. A little more clean up and paint and they will be ready to weld to the cantilever arm...

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2015, 01:28:34 AM »
I took a sheet of 3/8" plate today and started cutting out a few pieces. Shown are two reinforcements that will wrap around the cantilever pipe and help support the two wheel arms. I started on the generator mounts but ran out of oxygen...

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2015, 12:24:49 AM »
Generator mount side plates are cut from 3/8" plate. Again these fit over the cantilever pipe and are welded in place. Tomorrow I will cut the generator mount 1/2" plate top piece, and the slide plate that sits above the top piece of the generator mount. This slide plate will allow tensioning of the belts.

Other bits, pieces, and big chunks will arrive over the next week or so. Pretty soon the final welding takes place! I need to mock up a stand on dry land as well to spin the wheel on the cantilever to make sure everything works and the belts are aligned and tensionable.

I also note as I attach this picture that since I have over 50 posts my pictures can be much larger in KB, so future pictures will have more detail.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2015, 03:05:00 PM »
One of several 3/4 plates to fit on the other end of the cantilever pipe as a counterweight to the water wheel and the generator. The waterwheel, sheave, and generator weigh over 2200 pounds so this needs to be balanced on the other side of the pivot.

In addition this will also equally balance the water wheel so I can adjust the height easily, as the water wheel will roughly sit a 5 o clock on the pipe, the counterweight will sit at 11 o clock so the pipe can rotate to adjust the wheel up and down in elevation. This will become more apparent as it is assembled...

keithturtle

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #87 on: October 18, 2015, 10:20:09 PM »
Looks good, plenty of weight in the metal there.  What about the base?  What is the ratio of hardware weight to the weight of the concrete you are attaching it to? And is that ratio significant? Will the cement handle the potential shear forces, or move on the bank?

Gotta love progress

Turtle
soli deo gloria

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #88 on: October 21, 2015, 01:08:22 AM »
I'm going to dig a bigger hole than I did previously when my forms washed away last year with the flood. The more mass the better. I'm going to embed the 12 inch pipe pivot post in the concrete, and fill the post with concrete as well to make it stiff and strong. It will be supporting more than 2 tons...

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2015, 04:58:26 PM »
Generator mount tacked up.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #90 on: October 23, 2015, 08:20:11 PM »
Welded the wheel arms and the generator mount on the cantilever pipe...

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #91 on: October 24, 2015, 04:07:16 PM »
Top works mounted on temporary work stand. The cantilever boom pipe will slide through this piece and be permanently welded. This will allow rotation to move the wheel out of the water via a hydraulic cylinder mounted on the top works, as well as the ability to swivel on the two flanges to rotate the boom 180 to take the wheel on and off on the shore.


Just turn your head sideways to imagine this (can't get picture to rotate  :-[...)

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #92 on: October 25, 2015, 08:16:00 PM »
Cantilever pipe assembled to top works. The topworks has a 36 inch stroke hydraulic cylinder (not connected yet) to turn the waterwheel arms down into the water or up into the air. Counterweights go onto the far right. I have to weld two pieces of angle length wise along the far right end end to provide an anti-rotational key for the counterweights, as well as a stop to make sure they don't go on too far.

 The counterweights will not only balance the weight of the wheel and generator on the opposite side of the pipe, but will balance the weight of the wheel in a rotational manner as well.

This was fun to put together myself with my tractor... ;)

MattM

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #93 on: October 26, 2015, 12:23:28 AM »
You certainly enjoy heavy metal.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #94 on: October 26, 2015, 02:04:15 AM »
You certainly enjoy heavy metal.

I like all music ;D

When dealing with water, components have to be very strong. The combination of parts are now too heavy for my tractor to lift. I'll need to crane it into position now...

andreiandrei53

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #95 on: October 26, 2015, 02:24:38 AM »
Nice job! It looks pretty neat  ;)

I'm following this topic with great interest. Will it be running by Christmas?

keithturtle

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #96 on: October 26, 2015, 02:17:02 PM »
I'll need to crane it into position now...

Yeah, no surprise there; you accepted the $$$ risk.  Glad to see a very real example of perseverance.  Not sure I like that long force moment hanging out that far.  Better double up (or more) on the cement base; better yet, pile drive deep into the bank and pour around that.   There be tremendous forces on that three-footed base at high flow

Turtle
soli deo gloria

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #97 on: October 27, 2015, 07:53:41 PM »
Not sure I like that long force moment hanging out that far.  Better double up (or more) on the cement base; better yet, pile drive deep into the bank and pour around that.   There be tremendous forces on that three-footed base at high flow

Turtle

It's 12 feet from the centerline of the pivot to the centerline of the wheel. It will hang quite a ways out into the water into flow that is undisturbed by the river bank to generate maximum power.

In regards to the long lever arm, I've been thinking of that too. I will tie in the foundation well into the side of the riverbank with a couple of deadman type anchors  with additional concrete and rebar.

Since I will have to make access for a crane by having to remove a few trees, I can get an excavator in as well to dig a larger foundation. I can also back in a cement truck so I don't have to mix by hand or pump it.

skid

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Re: 5kw Poncelet Wheel Project
« Reply #98 on: October 27, 2015, 07:56:46 PM »
Nice job! It looks pretty neat  ;)

I'm following this topic with great interest. Will it be running by Christmas?

Yes it will be running by Christmas, 2016 that is :D