Author Topic: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz  (Read 43397 times)

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camillitech

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #99 on: June 04, 2015, 04:41:27 PM »
I am not a lawyer but that is IMHO simply nonsense.

CM's contention can simply be that the equipment is not fit for purpose since in a fairly common/normal arrangement it needlessly destroys batteries and appliances, in his opinion.  Indeed he might be of the opinion that the destructive behaviour could be construed as deliberately anti-competitive, which could bring SMA into a whole new world of pain with the EU competition authorities.

The fact that there is a photo of a different arrangement here is not relevant in the slightest.

I do wish people would stop trying to scare either CM or Fieldlines into taking down the threads.  I don't see many wild accusations or libels; we are discussing and expressing opinions on some apparently bad engineering and post-sales support from an otherwise respected international brand.  I'd like to hope that this is not typical SMA equipment or support behaviour, as reported.

Maybe SMA would like to deter people from buying SI units for domestic use at all, I don't know.

And people do use systems in ways not intended and then complain when it behaves strangely; I've had it happen to things that's I have put together, used orders of magnitude beyond the original design spec and I'm frankly amazed that it worked at all!

Rgds

Damon

I didn't ask the thread to be removed,  and yes I don't think his inverter is 'fit for purpose', I've been telling him that for months. However, the manual that he's clearly read says MINIMUM of 50mm square and he's only got 32mm square 'Twin and earth' on there, so hardly suitable, these cables  can carry over 200amps so very relevant indeed. Any lawyer 'worth his salt' would use that as a way of wriggling out of a valid claim. It is not 'a different arrangement' it is most certainly a dangerous one. He posted the same picture on the Navitron site months ago and I mentioned it to him then. So why post it again and leave himself open to a possible loophole in his case? It's not 'rocket science'.

And I have no issue whatsoever with the mods removing all mention of CM's clearly undersized cables. I would just like him to get his inverter sorted or a refund.

Cheers, Paul

Mary B

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #100 on: June 04, 2015, 04:44:14 PM »
You are one of the biggest jerks I  have ran into on this site. Flat out. Mr Know it all. Who knows nothing!


You might want to copy and paste from the SMA site again - the only text you've quoted was originated by me.

Post #76 relates ?

WRONG I copied that text directly off SMA's UK website!



Mary, the text you have quoted does not appear anywhere with the SMA documentation.



sean_ork

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #101 on: June 04, 2015, 05:01:06 PM »
Mary,

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

However, all I've done is politely point out that you've ommited to include the text, which you've apparently copied directly off the SMA UK website.

Please review your posts on this thread, I can't respond to white space or fresh air.

oztules

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #102 on: June 04, 2015, 05:32:18 PM »
Paul,
I make the difference as 2 hundredths of a volt differential at full continuous rating for the cables within the enclosure... and that assuming a foot or so of cable each rail..... multiply it out for the 5 or 10 feet to the bank.... were talking .... well not bush fire potential.... nor even a sack of wet mice....

The 33mm cable on the American Wire Gauge Conductor Size Table http://www.solaris-shop.com/content/American%20Wire%20Gauge%20Conductor%20Size%20Table.pdf

Rated for 94A continuous. the 50mm... about 140amps... so are they both wrong?

If you read the notes, that is very conservative, and in fact the NEC would put it as a power transmission cable in free air.

"Current (ampacity) Notes
: The current ratings shown in the table are for power transmission and have been determined
using the rule of 1 amp per 700 circular mils, which is a very conservative rating. For reference, the
National ElectricalCode (NEC) notes the following ampacity for copper
wire at 30 Celsius:
14 AWG - maximum of 20 Amps in free air, maximum of 15 Amps as part of a 3 conductor cable;
12 AWG - maximum of 25 Amps in free air, maximum of 20 Amps as part of a 3 conductor cable;
10 AWG - maximum of 40 Amps in free air, maximum of 30 Amps as part of a 3 conductor cable.

Now this if for continuous not intermittent. Max continuous is only 80-100amps for this little inverter ( 4kw or so@50v )

In relation to those notes, two conductors will get a higher rating for the same mmsq than  a single, as the surface are as a proportion to surface  increases as the diameter falls.

If you do your sums, either wire will do the job just fine from a safety perspective ( cant believe I'm saying this Bruce)

Considering it will run happily from less than 48v through to over 65v, it would be difficult to peddle the voltage corruption  line... and the nicely sized cap bank negates the transient argument too.....

But fear not......you have done for electrical theory what Cleopatra did for the steam engine.



The manual does not however disclose far more dangerous behavior....

Interestingly I had to fix a deceleration system on a butchers band saw today. it safely returns the cutting bands to stationary in less than 1 second, other wise turning it off it runs for 5 mins or more because of the inertia in the large driving drums, and the nice bearings... very dangerous condition while clearing the meat from the table..... What was interesting for this discussion... is that the timer that controls this is a omron dial timer.. preset for the appropriate deceleration time needed to bring the thing to a stop....

Guess what happens if we increase the rpm by 20% without changing the timer as well........ SMA has no right to mess with things like this....and would be  criminal in this case were it to happen, and a hand went west..... and without disclosure.

No matter the installation, they deliberately allow and in fact belligerently program this to happen if installed incorrectly... OR if it loses control of the loop for any other reason ( faulty shunt etc)...... it should just shut off if they are so concerned... thats the real nub of this.

To unilaterally speed up every induction motor within reach, not knowing what they power or how they integrate with the world is stupidity I have never witnessed before.... or the ballasts, or any saturated on purpose device ( eg ac relays, ferro transformers,  etc )... even chokes will be out of range.

The national power grid here run the same number of cycles per 24hr period... They do this for a reason, not just to make life difficult for themselves. Too many things rely on consistent reliable power, and SMA have chosen to not provide it.... even when their system is running "normally" it is outside spec of any self respecting power grid... even the one over here with diesel generators and hamsters on steroids, they keep it in the range.

 For a lawyer to pull that off ... the judge would need to be sex starved, and the lawyer .. a Pamela Anderson ( in her day) look alike.


..... oztules...........bewildered again
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camillitech

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #103 on: June 04, 2015, 06:18:29 PM »
Very interesting, informative and funny Oz, but c'mon T & E cable for a large inverter like that. Would you advertise the fact, especially when you've 'upgraded it' before using it  ;) If you had a product that you knew to be dangerous and faulty would you not endevour to at least pretend install it as the manufacturer says.

Cheers, Paul


oztules

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #104 on: June 04, 2015, 06:29:18 PM »
Your dead right about the advertising.... but the net results in this case are both ok.

I got kicked outside by the war dept. to do my 3km morning walk before I could edit it.

The surface area to surface area is wrong it should be surface area to volume.. but you all knew that, and the initial values for the wires were:

For those not interested in looking up the table:
NEC:14 AWG - maximum of 20 Amps in free air, maximum of 15 Amps as part of a 3 conductor cable; in the  AWG  table is 5.9 Amps
NEC:12 AWG - maximum of 25 Amps in free air, maximum of 20 Amps as part of a 3 conductor cable; in  the AWG  table is 9.3 Amps
NEC:10 AWG - maximum of 40 Amps in free air, maximum of 30 Amps as part of a 3 conductor cable. in the AWG  table is 15 Amps

So the difference is 200% or more.. and even more because of the two cores... much more surface area for the same volume ( there ... got it right)... so 200amps is allowed in this case, but only needs to support  less than100A cont... and thats unlikely too.


................oztules
Flinders Island Australia

mab

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #105 on: June 04, 2015, 06:55:06 PM »
'course, I would say it doesn't matter what size the cable is as long as the fuse /MCB protecting it is sized appropriately.  ;D

oztules

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #106 on: June 04, 2015, 07:10:49 PM »
Thanks oztules,

I have ordered a set, hopefully they will get through French Customs?  :o and actively seeking torroids transformers.

Thanks for your encouragement.

I had heard the French customs are slow to move stuff.. maybe thats where that OTW fellow could be useful. He seems to get them into the uk without a problem, then I assume easy to France.

If you can find SB3800.......... dead ones cheaply then they may be used, depends on how they embedded the transformers though... you only want the core in reality, so an angle grinder may give you some entertainment hacking the body up if needs be.

I looked at the si pics, and dead ones of those would do too, throw out the driver boards, and everything else but the fets and transformer, and the $75 chinese board will drive it direct... so dead ones of those would be fine too... But that will only do 4-5kw cont, which is a start ... but we need bigger torroids to make real power, so ringing around installers to see what they have on the junk floor may be interesting. We don't want HF units of any description..

I don't know whats available on the continent, but some one claimed they could get UK 3kw torroids wound for only a few hundred pounds too. That was on a united energy forum about the same thing... over here they are thousand and more dollars.

There is plenty of information out there now, and I will get around to doing the how too part two soon... he said....

Fair comment mab.


.................oztules
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 07:15:38 PM by oztules »
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oztules

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #107 on: June 04, 2015, 08:23:38 PM »
One more thing CM, For playing around and perhaps actual use, you can use a normal transformer.. and maybe rewind that for starters.
Old big welders would be a start or transformer out of that charger you showed.

They will perform adequately, but the idle current will be higher... and the weight twice for the same power... but they do work fine.
I had a 2kw normal one from a charger that I tested, and it was only about 50w losses at idle. ( with an ecore for a filter ( E65 3 turns))

There is probably a picture in that first thread or on another forum... somewhere....

So you can get going straight away with one of those... or parallel them up or series parallel or whatever it takes to get the power you want.

I assume you got the 15kw controller and fet board... if so just add transformer and stand back.


..................oztules
Flinders Island Australia

camillitech

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #108 on: June 05, 2015, 02:10:08 AM »

I got kicked outside by the war dept. to do my 3km morning walk before I could edit it.


................oztules

If I lived where you do I wouldn't need to be 'kicked out', looks beautiful.

Keep up the good work, Paul

oztules

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #109 on: June 05, 2015, 04:12:40 AM »
Sorry CM, I did not respond to a few queries from you.
"A Bit of Blue sky thinking……. I note that some times folk on other forums complain about their GTI PV inverters shutting down as the main utilities Grid has gone a few volts high. It seems that with this PV on roofs on housing estates, and folk on that housing estate NOT using all the generated power, then the Grid rises a few volts and shuts down some GTI's. I wonder if we could use that way as I have GRIDGUARD codes to make the Used/second hand SB GTI's sensitive to voltage control at each installation after voltage drop etc.
Just a thought and a bit safer that messing with the HZ frequency.?"

Yes thats how I do mine at the moment, when the grid voltage gets up to 255, one grid tie drops off, the next at 255.5.

This happens if there is just too much solar,and the batteries are nearing the end of their bulk... .... So it is a bang bang approach, but works flawlessly I admit.

These inverters just did it on their own, as i cant adjust them ( yet...).... and happen to be half a volt or less different.. very hard to pick as it all happens quickly when it happens.
There are better ways, but that is what i use at the moment. There is also a relay that I put in there to drop it out at 59v.... both the grid ties drop themselves off a fraction before it's current setting, and I have not bothered to change it... it has hysterisis built in, the grid drop off does not... and I still haven't done anything about it... would be better to use the relay though...

You could stack inverters I suppose, by using only 1 mother board, and building extra drive boards holding the two opto's and totems, then all trigger together, and keep the gate cap down.... maybe a 20-30 component board..... a bit of current bypass around the CT... and we should be good.
See these schematics... very very simple stuff.... output looks complex until you actually see it is  dead simple.

8824-0

8825-1

So simple... but they work ... no sophistication, just .......works.


...................oztules

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clockmanFRA

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #110 on: June 05, 2015, 05:21:27 AM »
Oz you are seriously helpful, thanks.

I will have to join that forum to get at OTW, so that I might contact him when I am in the UK. From the rest of the world to France is problematic and stuff just disappears. But once things are in the EEC European Union Countries, then shifting stuff about is not an issue, they say. But still the Post and carriers do not talk to each other, and each denies responsibility once its left their borders.

The SB3800 I have has the transformer completely encapsulated in the black goo. So not an easy thing to get at.

What I will try to do is build the 'Oz Beautiful Inverter' and hang on to the SI6 as getting my money back could take years, but I will get another set of boards so they could drive the SI in the future if I end up with the thing.

Oz, I have this thread running on the Navitron Forum and had a few replies from folk that care, or they think that I am barmy and are entertained by my making antics?
https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24981.msg289432/topicseen.html#msg289432 So it looks like I can barter for some torroids.

I posted some of your Photos I trust that's Okay, if not I can remove them.?

Brilliant about the Voltage increase, I will find some time to look at the SB's GTI's internal voltage setting and report back. The shut down relay would need to be at each SB, and that's an issue as each is on different, or will be on different buildings around the small Farm. Over the last 10 years or so I laid cables to each place never thinking that I should also lay extra cables, just in case...... :'(

For the future can we use a simple coded signal, 5 channel arrangement, on the 220vac going around the Inverter created Mini Grid, that would isolate/switch of the SB's? .

I like your doubling up solution for the Inverters with just the one main board, but first I will get your 'Oz Animal Inverter' built tested and working. Thanks for the Schematics yes simple and effective.

Thanks again.



Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

oztules

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #111 on: June 05, 2015, 06:30:24 AM »
Yes communication  over mains like they used to do in New York in the early 1900's is the best system I think for this... and something SMA should have done instead of botching the frequency...

I have lost any respect I may have had for them. I did think they were smarter than the average bear.... but now i think just expensive.
Well designed unit though for longevity... sealed is the best you can do, and they look to have done at least that... Epoxying or potting the torroids is  must  for long life.... so they have their good points that show they know what they are doing for long life... but thats about it for me.... they've over complicated things a bit too much.


You can transfer whatever data you want over the mains that way.. simple analogue, digital  or speech etc etc. If you use more small GTI units, you will get reasonably fine control this way.

When you wind torroids... DO epoxy each layer if you can or bog of some sort. I have seen in a lot of upmarket inverters, that the torroid is the weak point, as most don't pot these biggies.... and the wires can vibrate and after 1-10 years finally wear through and start the shorts... you never see that in EI.. they are always "gummed up"  or lacquered with something... and they fail from excessive core temps as a rule, not wire freedom problems.

Torroids are by far the best transformer we can have, but when you see how they are wound with .....no inter layer or inter wire insulation... you will shudder.... yes they mylar insulate windings ( prim from sec,) but within the winding they tend not to.... crazy but normal.

Any questions I will endeavor to answer.


If you don't use it for  battery charging ( AC coupling to generator) and you don't drop alien parts and screwdrivers into it when running you should have a fine system.. once you stop fiddling with them, and shorting bits out trying to measure things you never needed to or in short being a dill, they run flawlessly.
So far the only units that have failed here are ones I am playing with ... some how I always manage to blow it up while i am trying to do something I shouldn't... OAF.( operator assisted faults)... my house ones (and everyone else who  now has one)... have not suffered any outage... my test ones have been sent into orbit too many times.. the board charcoals ,and burns through from excessive blow ups... the control cards were only $45... so just bought more... $75 now i think

I should stop doing this, but I want to blow a few more up to test different motherboard saving configurations ... and this requires a full destruction each time I want to test new ideas.... 24 fets a time and the driver totems and opto's... rarely it goes back further than that..... although a good screw driver in the wrong place or an errant temp probe falling into the guts can really do damage.... all good fun I say....will probably end up simple with just a micro fuse in the drive lines and a zenner or surge or tranzorb diode up stream of it....should have tried that first... why??? coz if we can protect the driver form damage should it blow in the field, we need only replace the fets and we are away again... remote living makes you like that...

Those aero sharps make a good looking unit, and are  darn good GT inverters too. very good. It is a shame I have destroyed so many faultless units.. I have lots of GTI boards laying around, and they have nice big IGBT blocks in them  600v 50A blocks.... may use them one day to control the grid ties from the solar end.

So much to do... so little time is the problem..... photo's... go for it. Once on the net,  they are anyones....
"
The SB3800 I have has the transformer completely encapsulated in the black goo. So not an easy thing to get at."..... hmm you can always throw it in the fire and keep it below about 350-400c.. the laminations should be well enough protected, the wiring will probably be  too, and the goo run out.??... delicate enough solution you think??

They breed animals down here at 40 degrees South....


..............oztules              glutton for punishment....
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oztules

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #112 on: June 05, 2015, 06:56:15 AM »
CM... just some notes on your link..

1. ferrite is not annealed iron

2. torroids use expensive usually grain orientated silicon steel..not "The core is probably cheap. Its just a strip of steel rolled up. Then you wind away "... won't work... eddy currents will kill you .

3. Not 75kg, 75mmsq.. that picture is only 50 I think... maybe even less... be there somewhere. You can get away with lighter wire than normal with this design, as it is basically free air transmission... so even you 33mm stuff would qualify for 200a intermittent use, and easily 5kw cont.... prefer 50 up though for the bigger stuff.

4. The AB power one is transformer-less I think.

5. Nice to see other folks have tried the PJ LF units and found it a pleasant surprise too. Did he need to do the ferrite mods?

Excitable bunch over there....

..............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

Tinbum

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #113 on: June 05, 2015, 07:08:47 AM »
CM
Watching this with great interest. :)
Its a real shame about the SMA and I too hope the suppliers return your money - I'm praying my SMA backups (3 phase)  haven't the same problem as your SI once I get them connected up, which should be soon.

Oz
very interesting and enlightening stuff your doing- ever done anything for 3 phase?

clockmanFRA

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #114 on: June 06, 2015, 01:26:51 PM »
Hi Tinbum, good to see you.

Well so far I have started a topic on the Navitron European Forum, as a lot of guys there are very interested, but I am not sure how far it will get before a particular Moderator over there pulls it. He's a SMA fan you see, and will not allow me to show any links to a topic that is actually making some sence. https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24996.msg289544/topicseen.html#msg289544

I know something is wrong with my SI6, but it took Damon, Mary and Oz to say, "But the King has got NO CLOTHES ON".

Any way just in case anything is pulled anywhere, I am putting Oz's wonderfull 'Inverter Animal' information into a Word Document with all the appropriate Photographs. So I can put it together and read at my leisure as my Internet Satellite link is dubious Nowadays.

Besides. I am one of those guys that loves the coffee mug ring stains on the wedge of papers.  :) Like my Hugh Piggot booklet, my PV solar tracker booklet, and Now Oz's 'Inverter Animal' booklet.

Does Fieldlines have a Making a 6kW Inverter thread somewhere. ?  Just asking.

 

Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

SparWeb

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #115 on: June 06, 2015, 07:37:30 PM »
Quote
...Does Fieldlines have a Making a 6kW Inverter thread somewhere. ?  Just asking....

No, but there is "another" forum that does. 
http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,902.0.html?PHPSESSID=nm5r4q53dke9pr6eqjn96tb7a6
Some familiar names over there.
(kinda surprised Mr. Oz hasn't linked you over to it yet, but we respect his modesty, not just his cleverness with gadgets.)
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, Xantrex C40, DIY 10ft (3m) diameter wind turbine, Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024
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camillitech

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #116 on: June 07, 2015, 03:01:54 AM »


Well so far I have started a topic on the Navitron European Forum, as a lot of guys there are very interested, but I am not sure how far it will get before a particular Moderator over there pulls it. He's a SMA fan you see, and will not allow me to show any links to a topic that is actually making some sence. https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24996.msg289544/topicseen.html#msg289544

I know something is wrong with my SI6, but it took Damon, Mary and Oz to say, "But the King has got NO CLOTHES ON".



Now now CM,

that's a little unfair, I would hardly call said moderator a fan of SMA. You know very well why that link was pulled, it was removed because of the rather unfair and misleading pictures you posted here and elsewhere of Russ's burn't out SI 5048. Considering the said forum is hosted by an SMA dealer http://www.navitron.org.uk/ I'm surprised that they didn't pull your whole thread never mind just edit a few names and remove one link. I seem to remember you saying that the whole thread actually disappeared from another forum.

I really am disappointed in your attitude towards someone who's helped you (and me) many times over the last few years.

Cheers, Paul

clockmanFRA

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #117 on: June 08, 2015, 04:54:22 AM »
Many thanks SparWeb for that.

I am seriously happy with what Oztules is doing,   :) its a sort of empowerment that gives me that courage to take that step forward in getting a real decent powerful Inverter, and even better, its open source, so no hidden agendas.



Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

clockmanFRA

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #118 on: June 08, 2015, 05:30:17 AM »
Camillitech, It is pointless arguing with you and the SMA worshipers anymore.
I am not particular good at arguing my case in a eloquent manner or speaking my written word in a Intellectual way, what it is, is what it is.
 
Even though you say your trying to help, you keep telling me that you would do this or that, and get the SI replaced, but you honestly don't get it.
 SMA have told me in writing that my SI is behaving as it should, there is nothing wrong with it. No they will not replace it. Full Stop.

I have tried and tried to talk to someone at SMA, I have sent complaint letter after complaint letter, still I get nothing, not even an acknowledgement from SMA. (I do have a signature from someone at SMA  German headquarters that they received my complaint).

No, I will not work around their fault, and install their expensive equipment, and become a slave to SMA.

 Their is no mention of that special equipment in the SMA published SI Specification I need to install. There is NO WARNING or mention of my Inverter goes to 60HZ and 'fries' my domestic appliances,  and No mention of altering the charge rates that are seriously hurting my batteries. NOPE, NOTHING, SO IN MY EYES SMA COULDNT GIVE A DAMM.!

However, I am now resigned to the fact that I will not see my money or a new machine for the foreseeable future or ever.
But one positive outcome is that, I will make my own 'Oz Animal Inverter' at least then I am in control.

 I suppose its a bit like my 3off Hugh Piggott design Wind Turbines and my 3off designed and manufactured 2kW PV Solar Trackers, at least they work real well and survive the harshest conditions, yea yea I over engineer but at least my stuff goes on and on and on.

Don't forget what the SMA CEO said, "We only design our stuff for a 10 year life cycle".

As regards that link about the fire at the dump load, think about it.
It made me extremely wary of so called experts.

As regards that other thread, yes it was pulled, but now without the master Moderator, now dead, there was a right mess, and I have lost 4 friends, but never mind, the thread has now been sanitised to suit you SMA supporters.
So why should I try and help others on that forum when those guys just vamoosh stuff.

I wont argue with you SMA supporters anymore, I have said my bit, and each to there own.
 
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

clockmanFRA

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #119 on: June 08, 2015, 06:36:53 AM »
SparWeb,

We here in France are having problems getting on that site.

"No, but there is "another" forum that does. " http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,902.0.html?PHPSESSID=nm5r4q53dke9pr6eqjn96tb7a6 "Some familiar names over there."

It seems that the French 'Orange' (the big boy here) is blocking access to 'anotherpower'.

A Friend in the South of France e-mailed me a couple of days ago saying he couldn't get the site link to work, and yesterday my Mrs tried in the local French town and she cant get on the site.

Just experimented here as we have 2 satellite systems, One is wholly French, Nordnet, and the other is European but UK controlled. No problems with the UK provider, but again on the French Nordnet, No access.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

oztules

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #120 on: June 08, 2015, 08:03:55 AM »
Maybe i will have to copy it to here as well....can the mods do that?... looks like a lot of pain for a user to do it.... Bruce, Spar  Damon....??

Part 2 will have to be written soon as I get some time. Will try to make it a long post so it covers things completely, like the transformer thread... so enough pictures and information that  it can actually be used to make something... somewhere else. They really are worthwhile things.


...............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

DamonHD

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #121 on: June 08, 2015, 08:28:14 AM »
Are you asking about copying a thread from elsewhere onto this site?

I have no special skills in that department, and there is a real danger of annoying the admins of the other board copying material across.  (Think copyrights, etc.)

However, if they are happy with it then we could possibly do a crappy cut-n-paste job.

Rgds

Damon
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Bruce S

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #122 on: June 08, 2015, 09:22:21 AM »
OZ;
I agree with DamonHD. I think I know a few of the mods on anotherpower.com and if they are as helpful as they were here,,, they'll NOT have any problems allowing a link .
BUT always best to ask  ;D.

One of the smartest ones there that I recognize,  is rossw. If he's still active, he'll be able to link much better than I could.

I too look forward to part 2, my only foray into wind xformers or torriods these days is building jewel thiefs.

Cheers
Bruce S     
A kind word often goes unsaid BUT never goes unheard

oztules

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #123 on: June 08, 2015, 03:37:45 PM »
Hmmm Probably best if I do it from the feel of it. Damon is right....... I'll find a few hrs and try it.

..........oztules
Flinders Island Australia

oztules

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #124 on: June 08, 2015, 05:53:32 PM »
It's done.
The 5 pics per post was a nuisance.... but we prevailed.


http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,148717.msg1033816/topicseen.html#msg1033816

I guess the next part is the building of the inverter... and wiring and testing etc etc.

..............oztules
Flinders Island Australia

Frank S

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #125 on: June 08, 2015, 10:43:24 PM »
Oztules; that is a great set of instructions for you monster inverter. Thanks I saved it to a PDF file so I will always have it one day I'll have to build one for my self.
 several years ago I believe either you or flux posted a transformer calculator I used it a couple times on small IE transformers but no longer have that computer and have lost the link
 but if I remember it did not include the toridal transformers
 would it be prudent for you or whom ever to post that link again?
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

joestue

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #126 on: June 09, 2015, 01:47:45 AM »
Frank that was probably my spreadsheet, i remember your comment, so far you are the only person who commented positively about it.
located here http://johansense.com/bulk/spreadsheets/

i've made some edits over the years if you check back in a week i might have an updated copy fixed.

Oz, how much do the cores weigh? reason i ask is because alphacoresdirect has cores for $3.3/lb. plus about 1$ a pound for shipping.
this might be a more affordable option than shipping those GTI inverters from Australia.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 01:55:26 AM by joestue »
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Frank S

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #127 on: June 09, 2015, 03:00:50 AM »
Thanks Joestue
 That is one of the ones I used
This is going to head off topic
 
    I had located another as well I guess from somewhere else it had much less edit-ability just entered primary voltage maximum desired input amperage or out put amperage @ desired secondary volts max temperature rise seconds. then it gave a few possible solutions in the form of a graph for core weight, primary wire size, P/S turn count. But it ignored or assumed flux density and a few other things.
 I made a small spot welder out of a microwave transformer from the data from it then cross logged it with yours to learn why I needed a 40 amp breaker to keep it from tripping. 
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

oztules

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #128 on: June 09, 2015, 04:55:40 AM »
Frank, glad you got something from those ramblings. " cross logged it with yours to learn why I needed a 40 amp breaker to keep it from tripping.  " The torroids are killers for this ... up to 60 times their magnetizing current at start up, if you happen to turn it on at zero crossing of the sine wave... if you catch it at the peak of the wave at turn on, you will only get an amp or less..... inrush current is absolutely brutal with low leakage torroids at zero crossing start up. Joe would be infinitely better at explaining why.

 Joestue... from memory they are around the 10-11kg per core... so 48lbs for a twin stack, and 72lbs for the three stack.
 2 stack should be ample for most folks, I did the three stack for my main unit... a bit over the top I suspect. Fully wound they are 15kg each  or 45kg (100lbs) for the three before we start messing them up  and unwinding them  ( over 98lbs??) or the twin at 66lbs wound.... pretty hefty just to start with.

Don't have a bare bones core at the moment to measure, but thats the ball park.

You get to find muscles you did not know you had playing with these things for a few days.

At least for  60hz, you can economize a bit on the weight.

......oztules
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 05:00:55 AM by oztules »
Flinders Island Australia

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #129 on: October 12, 2015, 10:09:04 PM »
WOW this is a marathon to read. @ least it confirmed the view is SMA island was designed to corner the market by limiting compatibility to their own products. The significant frequency shifting actually makes the not compliant to electrical rules for 50 hz mini grid. Connection to the grid is problematic.  Considering and alternative main control unit manufactured locally. I really like OZtules homebrew but my problem is the transformer winding, electronics & programming is no problem.

clockmanFRA

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #130 on: December 19, 2015, 01:57:51 PM »
Hi Phred, how's yours coming along.

I note your comment about, "electronics & programming is no problem."

I need my hand holding a bit with electronics and especially programming.

Perhaps you might like to sort out a Aurdino with a sequential shut down, I say very politely. It would operate relays and radio signals to switch off GTI's on my isolated roof PV installations so they do not back feed 230vac through my OzInverter and put 60vdc into the 1300ah c10 batteries.

The Aurdino can follow the my Midnite Classic 200 charging regime through the Classic Aux relays and settings, batteries go to float, Aurdino does it stuff.   
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

clockmanFRA

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Re: From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz
« Reply #131 on: December 19, 2015, 02:30:42 PM »
Update on the SMA Sunny Island Inverter.

As you know SMA did not want to know about my problems and wouldn't even talk to me anymore.

As Germany is in the EEC, and both retailer and manufacture are German, the EEC Trading Standards have now pursued my case for me under the relevant consumer acts.

SMA recently contacted me direct and offered a free 50 amp DC charger and interface and informed me that to get the SI to work correctly I must install all SMA charging equipment.
That would be another 4 off SMA chargers and interfaces. Sorry that was just very expensive gear and I was certainly not going to replace my Wind turbines with SMA GTI's.

I declined there offer. Now they have offered me my original monies back that I paid for the SI Inverter.

SMA still insist there is nothing wrong with a 60HZ rise in frequency, and have no response to my other complaint that "there is no mention in the technical specifications that SMA equipment must be installed to get the SI to function correctly."

SMA still insist that they have offered a technical solution, ie I install all their gear, and I will not accept their technical solution.

Interestingly Trading Standards, after looking at the Engineers reports, are very keen that the SI is not functioning correctly, and not informing purchasers before purchase that other SMA equipment has to be installed is strange.

Also according to Trading Standards the original retailer should reimburse me, but again SMA have stepped in with a 3 page Contract, gagging clauses and the like, instead of following the correct relevant consumer purchase acts. Trading Standards are now pursuing the retailer.

As regards my consequential losses, the washing machine, microwave, and damage to the Gel batteries, (I have to have the SI set higher on bulk and float than all other controllers, especially the small GTI 230vac 2.75kW PV back feeding into the SI), the only way would be the courts, but then that's lots of serious bucks.

So far Trading Standards pushing has at least got my money back. I will see what Trading Standards say about this contract SMA want me to sign before they pay me back in 8 weeks or so.

Oh yes, SMA now have a 'Customer care department'............

I love my OzInverter............. what can I say, oztules gave me that knowledge to create my own Inverter with out all this hidden dodgy software, and despicable must connect stuff.

A very merry Christmas holiday 'oztules'.



 

Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery