Author Topic: 100 year old tech  (Read 1324 times)

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tanner0441

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100 year old tech
« on: May 23, 2022, 11:11:56 AM »
Hi

A few months ago I mentioned on here I was setting up a micro off grid set up for a woman living in a modified shipping container, 450W of solar 430Ah of batteries and a 1500W Pure sine wave inverter. That set up is working fine and does everything she has asked of it.

She came to me and asked if I knew of a water pump that would lift water from her stream 40ft up the enbankment to her storage tanks. Two companies had been out and quoted hundreds of GBP to do it.

I measured the fall on the stream laid a 1 1/2 in pipe up the stream bed and  looked at what came out of the end, and judged it would be enough for a RAM pump. put one together from 3/4 plumbing fittings and a couple of swinging back check valves. coupled the feed from the stream to the input and a standard garden hose to the output and fed it up the bank and lay it on the ground after about ten minutes water was coming from the end, I cut the pipe to length and fed it into a 210ltr tank, acouple of minutes later the water was going into the tank at the rate of 225ml a minute.

Starting the pump until there was enough back pressure to hold the outlet valve closed was a bit fiddlybut once everything settled down it sat on the bank clicking away. Appart from when a branch fell of a tree and hit the pump and it required restarting it has worked without fail.

Total cost £65

I would like to be there when the rep from the company doing petrol and electric pumps calls for his follow up visit to see what she has decided.

Brian


Bruce S

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2022, 12:22:26 PM »
That's wicked cool!
In the past when building "little" RAM pumps , they have also been a fiddly to get going. I generally had to siphon off the air so the water flow didn't have to push the air out of the way.
Once working , they just work.

Cheers to you  ;D!!
Bruce S
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DamonHD

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2022, 12:31:27 PM »
Yes, amazing and well done!

Rgds

Damon
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tanner0441

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2022, 05:37:18 PM »
Hi

I used standard 3/4 hinged flap valves and all 3/4 fittings, with a gate valve on both the inlet and outlet, Shut both valves off and slowly open the inlet valve until the waste valve slams shut. Give it a poke with your finger or stick and it should again slam shut. Slowly open the outlet valve poking at the inlet valve once you get a head of water in the outlet pipe you can get to a point where both gate valves are fully open. if you are border line on the inlet head and the inlet valve doesn't slam shut, try tipping the pump over a few degrees the speed the inlet valve closes is impotant for the water hammer effect. I seem to be getting around 10:1 lift ratio though the outlet quantity is reduced at that ratio, but it pump 24/7

With a 40ft head the pressure in the outlet hose is some 17psi for head pressure multiply head height by 0.334 that is at 20C but it is good enough for most temperatures.

Lots of examples on You Tube just search ram pumps..

Brian


MattM

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2022, 09:51:45 PM »
I've got about 30" head on the pond to the overflow drain.  The overflow dam probably moves about 30gpm.  That would be an interesting way to use the pond for watering the banks.  If you can push > 30 feet of head I could use a 20 gallon drum on a tree that fills to a self-flushing valve to feed the sprinkler.  I am not versed on water pressure.  How much pressure does it take to run an axial-head sprinkler?

Edit:. Way under-estimated my flow.  Its more like 150 gpm.  Its probably double that.  I can fill a 5g bucket in < 2 seconds, even with heavy spillage. The overflow is over 30" wide, so not even catching but a fraction in the flow test.  Even 40 foot of head doesn't end up the flow I'd need.  I would want about 70 foot of head to actually do it by my rough calculations.  If it trickled water into the soil up on the top of the grass areas it probably will slowly transfer to the lower areas.  Its worth a try.  Probably need to stick to 3/4" or 1" on the experiment.

Does the flow have to be smooth and cavitation-free to get started?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2022, 10:24:38 PM by MattM »

tanner0441

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2022, 04:04:33 AM »
Hi

First let me correct that figure in the calculation it should read 0.433 not the other way round as I put it.

The feed pipe I used was what was available at the site. If you have a lot of head with too much pressure then play with the inlet gate valve, but you are fortunate you won't need a long inlet pipe trailing 50 to 100ft up the stream to get enough flow.

I am not an expert on these things I have built a few of them which I have managed to get going relatively easily, and once running have continued to run without nursing.  The one thing that does seem to help is the accumulator that smooths out the pulses.

Look on YouTube there is a wealth of information on there.

Brian





SparWeb

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2022, 12:37:27 AM »
Holy smokes Tanner.  Next you're going to tell us you found a heat exchanger for 30 bucks and they've got hot showers!
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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Markcw

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2022, 02:09:50 AM »
You can't beat old technology, a friend of mine installed a papa ram pump for his livestock high up on the hills here in Wales, said it's the best thing he has ever done,

MattM

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2022, 11:33:19 PM »
The parts were cheap enough I went for 1.5" for the 40' drive pipe and valve.  A long drive pipe seems critical after watching many videos.  The accumalator and inlet strainer haven't been figured out, and I lack my barrel for storage.  Slowly collecting my parts and hope to have an active pump in a couple of weeks.

tanner0441

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2022, 01:41:37 PM »
Hi

The accumulator I used was from a central heating system. it has a schrader valve on the top. The size does't seem critical the larger it is the longer it will take to develop the back pressure and I just let all the air out first. Some people use inverted plastic bottles

The fall seems more critical than the drive pipe length, I first tested mine with about 10ft of garden hose from a 400ltr water tank  4 to 5 ft seems the lowest.

Brian.

MattM

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2022, 07:31:08 PM »
We run a little dam so to avoid adding holes to it I'm going to try syphoning which a guy demonstrates is just fine for a ram pump, to go over obstacles.  Had to add a couple of extra ball valves before and above the dam so I can fill the drive pipe before starting the cycling.

Some people run the main/waste valve before the fill valve.  Others run it behind it.  Any thoughts on that?

tanner0441

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2022, 02:18:49 PM »
Hi

I have a 3/4 gate valve right befor the waste valve. I also have a second gate valve befor the delivery pipe fitting. you can shut the outlet gate valve off to prime the pump. then open it slowly if the pump stops cycling just keep poking the waste valve until you have enough back pressure to keep it cycling.

The gate valves are only a way of stopping the pump for cleaning and maintainance, becaues at sometime something could travel down the drive pipe and stop it.

Any more I make will have the facilityto add a pressure gauge, the pressure is directly related to the lift height.
       
Brian

MattM

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2022, 07:03:26 PM »
The test run worked.  I have about 30 inches of drop.  Because it siphons to clear the dam I played with drive pipe height.  It works much stronger, shorter cycles if I make it draw water closer to the surface.  If I let it droop to the bottom it cycles rapidly and the output is very weak.  I'm going to play with drive length but need to pick up some more unions.  I originally made it too tall and used up my spare unions to lower the height and reduce fall.

MattM

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2022, 07:38:36 PM »
I'll need to expand the drive pipe.  An effective 13' is plenty to keep it cycling but the pressure is too low with my meager 30" drop.

Bruce S

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Re: 100 year old tech
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2022, 08:34:50 AM »
MattM;
The cool thing? It's working and you have a base setup that you can always refer back to has you tweak the rest  ;D.

Cheers!!
Bruce S
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