axial generator with lamination core

[Bruce S]

brandnewb
I'll chime in here about the conversation between you & JW on this thread.

mbouwer;
has been posting on this thread since 2017. I'm certain that's what JW was alluding to when he said he wanted you to do better research.

mbouwer didn't start out being an expert in building or designing 'mills; like the rest of us he posted and was guided by those with high levels of knowledge and continued to learn.

His fabrication skills are simply awesome to say the least!!
Be builds because he wants to, and uses different designs  to "test" different theories, from what I can tell merely for the knowledge.
He has reached out to others to collaborate, but there's only one other person on this web that builds active blade pitching who's stuff is also awesome the see/read research.

My advise is go to page 1 of these, begin there and make your way through all of these. Then post questions, or do like the rest of us do merely look on in awe of the fabrications.

Hope this helps
Bruce S

[JW]

What could I have worded differently for you to do catch on to that in the future?

You can do like the rest of us and study. I have invested time and money it the THE TOTALLY FRIGN AWASOME DATA BASE we have here.

When I say ask the forum questiones (would somebody pease fix the spellcheck) im not talking about the members, im talking about the forum its self. Do a search of the forum related to your qwestion. check the forum search on google.

 brandnewb youir laxadasical care free personality doesnt help eather. alot of what we discuss and outline can be dangerious...

We have a safety protocal and you are encountering it.

JW

[brandnewb]

Dear Bruce,

I respect that you are wanting to help. But you are missing out on some important factors so it seems. As is JW.

I am studying. Hell I probably know more about the books I bought than any of us here expect for the people that wrote them
Also I am in awe of the craftsmanship of others, as I have stated several times already. How is it that you guys are so easy to just ignore that fact that I am in fact showing awe?

What this field needs is a little critical push back every now and then for it to remain credible.

All I want to hear, and what I think the field needs, is something like this.

The goal is to generate this much watts at this much blah blah blah..
Something tangible.

Only then can we celebrate if those goals are met. As there is one thing being a craftsmen and there is another thing getting the goal to align with the thing being crafted.

I have had some push back early in my efforts stating basically the same thing.
What is the goal?
Hence I formulated my goals rather easy to repeat over and over again.

brandnewb
I'll chime in here about the conversation between you & JW on this thread.

mbouwer;
has been posting on this thread since 2017. I'm certain that's what JW was alluding to when he said he wanted you to do better research.

mbouwer didn't start out being an expert in building or designing 'mills; like the rest of us he posted and was guided by those with high levels of knowledge and continued to learn.

His fabrication skills are simply awesome to say the least!!
Be builds because he wants to, and uses different designs  to "test" different theories, from what I can tell merely for the knowledge.
He has reached out to others to collaborate, but there's only one other person on this web that builds active blade pitching who's stuff is also awesome the see/read research.

My advise is go to page 1 of these, begin there and make your way through all of these. Then post questions, or do like the rest of us do merely look on in awe of the fabrications.

Hope this helps
Bruce S

[brandnewb]

ok ok ok , I finally think I understand

There is no real goal to be met here.

There is just sharing ones abilities of next level craftsmanship.

In that case I should bow down and just continue giving praise as I have always giving mad props to the skills being displayed here.

[mbouwer]

For me, following and being involved in this forum is like meeting friends from all over the world.

[Adriaan Kragten]

(Attachment Link)

For me, following and being involved in this forum is like meeting friends from all over the world.

This is a photo of the windmill built by William Kamkwamba from Malawi. His windmill is described in the book "The Boy Who Harnessed The Wind". The Dutch title is: "De Windvanger". I have the Dutch version ISBN 978-90-225-5379-4. I is a very nice book which clearly shows the problems you meet if you want to design a windmill in an African country like Malawi and if you have no access to the required knowledge, materials and tools. The book also describes the problems with extreme drought and with politicians who deny the real problems.

[bigrockcandymountain]

Funny, we just had that book from the library for my kids to read.  It definitely went over well. My 8 year old loves to build stuff out of junk. 

I also appreciate making friends all over the world on this forum.

Cheers from Saskatchewan, Canada

[Mary B]

His stated goal for this turbine was to build a MODEL of a commercial turbine. If some of what he builds scales to our use great, if not it is still an awesome model!

[JW]

[mbouwer]

It is a model I made for a friend. But nothing more than that.

I think that for a mill that is really usefull to me, I have to make completely different components.

[MattM]

Is that the newest dynamic pitch version or your previous version?

[mbouwer]

My idea is to make a small axial generator like this one but with 10 magnets / 9 coils and  laminated iron cores in the coils.

[mbouwer]

Magnet and coil circle nominal 60 mm diam.
(It's fun to use my stainless steel pliers to handle the magnets)

[Bruce S]

A new build?

Cool!!!
I'll be watching.
Does look like one of the magnets got turned , or has it not been set in place?

Cheers
Bruce S

[mbouwer]

My intention is to encapsulate the magnets in iron. There are only 10 magnets on my magnet rings.

[mbouwer]

A magnet rotor and a setup for how I can encapsulate the magnets in iron.

[mbouwer]

There is a lot to read about buried magnets, but can I apply that to the magnetic discs of an axial generator?
Or just encapsulate in polyester?

[kitestrings]

I may be missing part of what you are trying to do mbouwer.  In your next to last photo (reply #807) you have steel tabs or "ears" up and over a portion of the magnet.  I guess this would hold the magnet from moving, but doesn't it also increase the gap that you need?  I had always thought that with an axial you want the magnet pairs as close as possible, generally accommodating the coil height plus mechanical clearance, but no more.

You said earlier that you want to "encapsulate the magnets in iron".  What is your purpose, or expected improvement of doing this?

[JW]

 kitestrings, I think is referring to the magnetic circuit index. He (mbouwer) may be referring to dynamics.

[mbouwer]

Sometimes magnets are stored in the iron of the rotor.

[joestue]

Sometimes magnets are stored in the iron of the rotor.

(Attachment Link)

The magic happens in the fact that there is only a tiny amount of metal shorting the magnet out, compared to the iron in the stator conducting the magnetic field through and around the coils.

Secondly there is no benefit to a buried magnet generator unless you use capacitors  (or an active rectifier) to re-circulate leading power factor current, which strengthens the magnetic field.. which offsets the volume of magnet needed to generate a given amount of power, at the expense of more copper losses.

I have seen buried magnets in the rotors of hvac fan motors, 100 watts at around 1200 rpm, from just 16 magnets 1mm thick 6mm wide and 1 cm long, for an 8 pole motor which is about 6cm diameter.

[kitestrings]

Okay, but I’m still unclear, are we talking about an axial (I thought) or radial design?

[mbouwer]

The point is that mills can now squeeze 18 MegaWatts out of their generator and what we can learn from the techniques they apply.

[joestue]

Okay, but I’m still unclear, are we talking about an axial (I thought) or radial design?

I have not seen a buried magnet axial design but in some sense it would be easier to build because a fiberglass retaining band could handle the radial centripetal forces and stay out of the air gap. (So the metal shunts needed to retain the laminations and hold the magnets in could be made thinner)

But anyhow, building one of these designs and getting any benefit out of it is beyond most home shop equipment.

[mbouwer]

Attaching the magnets.
Now I have a set up of a magnet ring where the magnets are contersunked between standing small 1 mm thick sheets.

[MattM]

The isolating sheets sounds interesting.  Will that alleviate eddies caused by the rotor moving over energized coils?

[brandnewb]

----------------
understood ladies and gentlemen.

I indeed have no place here so it seems.

It is with a broken heart I will try not to come back.

But one knows already how difficult that is
----------------

Is what I was about to state. But then I though to ask.

Are there already some defined goals yet? like open circuit output at some rpm?

I mean I am not trying to be mean here as I certainly still am trying to formulate those. But at least I take it from the top down.

Ok respect. I hope to drink some coffee or even better with you guys if I do not hear anything meaningful soon.

maybe a week or so before I pull the plug if ever

[mbouwer]

Light hollow sturdy magnet ring ( 170 mm outer diameter ) made of 2 mm and 1 mm plate.
Magnets 20 x 10 and 5 mm thicknes.

[brandnewb]

why JW?
this machine especially at that position ig going to do what?

@Mbouwer, You still can believe I live and respect you but where is this all going to to?.

Give us something!!


I will give you how I operate.

I use the omni calculator to state that there is 322 wats theoretically available in my setup. And now we go dive into how much can we extract from that.

I really think we should at least keep things real. No more funny stuff!!!!

[brandnewb]

why is one blade so differently orientent than the other 2?

mbouwer. How are your local codes? even if you do get this rather small turbine to get good results then depending on where you operate you might not get to keep it running.

Now I told you before and will do so for the last time.
Let us sit down together and compare plans

else risk this being just a joke

[brandnewb]

your efforts are never a joke. I for one applaud you for them

But no longer should we allow for great projects without definition.

So I have hoped to make my point.

Ahh of course not. the powers that be will nto see my point so I  should spill it out.

What do you expect to get out of this setup? let us use an RPM base.

[mbouwer]

It is a working model in the making.

[brandnewb]

His stated goal for this turbine was to build a MODEL of a commercial turbine. If some of what he builds scales to our use great, if not it is still an awesome model!

Thank you Mary. I have praised you and have gotten you high in my respect.

But since My user name hase changes without me being involved I can also take the liberty to be a little more direct.

wind does NOT scale well. we all know it and a center for ants does not make things work any differently all of a sudden.

Why I still do not understand is why my country brother him self does not lay flat the goals. Why are others speaking for him?

Look I am biting my tongue here and I am still a nice guy but facts should be facts and goals should be backed up.

Otherwise this is just a parade of things without sense.