Hi - a few additional points occur that I have been mulling over for awhile, regarding electric vehicles and where and how they fit in:
- Some EV advocates, (or for that matter advocates of this or that transportation or energy technology) will sometimes go a bit overboard (in my view) trying to say they have "THE" answer to this or that issue (whether the issue is urban air pollution, pollution from mining fossil fuels, high prices of this or that fuel, claimed Carbon pollution, scarcity, storability, military or other security, or anything else). In my view plug-in vehicle propulsion is not "the" answer to life, the universe and everything. It has become (now that many of the kinks are worked out) a very good answer (both from a business standpoint and an environmental one) to some transportation issues.
One criticism or tempering point as to electric vehicles that I do think should be made more often is that light duty vehicle road-going transportation (whether renewable-powered or otherwise) is not the only form of transportation out there, and while it is a very prominent part of the present global mix, and may well remain that way going forward, it is not the only option. Other options for passenger travel depending on locale include buses, inter- and intra-city rail and subway, walking, biking, conventional airplane, boat/sea, etc. There will probably be a few in the future that are not presently common such as passenger short-hop air travel. There is also some transport tech that is not commonly lumped in to the conversation elevators, escalators, airport-type walkway systems, etc.) For freight transportation, construction, mining, farming and such, there are some additional forms to consider such as semi-trucks and mining rail systems along with such as last-mile drone delivery of boxes. In any event the point is that we are all familiar with light duty vehicles and it is fun to talk about them, but if discussing in the context of best and worst options for future transport (and if trying to avoid intellectual sloppiness) then it seems useful at least to bookmark that there are other ways to approach transportation discussion.
Further, a commitment to road-going transportation options also requires a commitment to building and maintaining roads and that brings with it additional financial, technological, pollution, aesthetic and policy considerations.
- To re-acquaint myself with the themes of this board, I took a look here:
http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,143583.0.html Topic: What is the
www.fieldlines.com forum all about? (Read 15716 times)
What is the
www.fieldlines.com forum all about?
« on: June 08, 2010, 02:43:56 PM »
The Do-It-Yourself theme comes through and is a reminder to me that I am not directly into that (though certainly I do like learning from DIY folks, where possible). That is I won't be making my own wind equipment (or solar panels, or electric vehicles, or EV charge stations, etc.) any time soon. With that being said, I've gone out of my way to have a lot of mass-produced home energy equipment installled and I like learning what I can from do-it-yourselfers.
I suppose an oddball side-note is that I do like people who think independently and formulate their own ideas in philosophy of economics. Calling this "do-it-yourself" economics might seem to disparage it and it is certainly not DIY in clean energy technology, but just making the side note.
- The "about" link also re-affirms that discussion of electric vehicles is clearly (and explicitly) within the forum discussion topics.
- In my view, electric vehicles are past that turning point that we see with renewable energy harvesting technologies and others, where they may once have been the province of a mixture of mass-production manufacturers and do-it-yourself hobbyists and others, they have transitioned to mass production. The battle has been somewhat pained (the incumbent mass-producers of combustion engine vehicles didn't seem to want to get into EVs, even if there was evidence of under-served demand) but we are to some extent there. A catalyst has been not only the rise of hard-charging upstart Tesla, but the strong push by China in the direction of mass-produced EVs. Many of the incumbent established gasoline- and diesel-engine vehicle higher-volume manufacturers have engaged in at least a "defensive position" when it comes to plug-in vehicles though none of them yet have transitioned to selling a majority of vehicles with plugs.
- Perhaps there is some middle ground when it comes to DIY - one may not build one's own wind power machines, but one may get more involved than the next person in installing the equipment or devising solutions unique to one's property. When it comes to electric vehicles, in participating in a local EV association I have seen some differences of opinion of the members.... some of them have built their own EVS and don't really want much to do with the newer mass-produced products, some of them are ok with both and some are more into just buying and using the newer mass-produced products. Even with the purchase of a mass-produced EV, there is still some moderate pioneering spirit, such as choices around home charging, installation, whether and how to pair with home EV, monitoring data, whether to install batteries, etc. V2G and V2X also are topics where a person buying an EV for their garage may get involved in some hands-on decisions, though I think in some aspects those topics are of questionable value whereas in other topics they make sense to me.
- As someone who over the last five years has driven a BEV (along with a gasoline vehicle) and more recently a PHEV, and as someone who started installing solar on his home about 13 years ago, I'd say that one of my major goals has been partially but not fully accomplished. There is a spirit of "sticking it to the man" that comes with being able to harvest one's own energy from ambient sources and not only power one's own house but put it in a car and extend one's activity - all without having to make use of or pay for distant generating sources or refined fossil fuels. A long time ago I heard one California advocate call this making the "PV-EV" connection. I have been only partially able to get there, but I am on my way (partially powering my house and my vehicle with solar, and partially reaching my destinations on these sources of power). I know people who have been covering all of their energy needs by solar energy, and reaching their destinations via electric vehicle, for more than a decade. We are rapidly approaching the point (or have already arrived) where one does not have to be a millionaire to do this. It is no longer a matter of purchasing a $100k vehicle and a $50k-$100k (or whatever) solar system, but there are now $40k BEVs on the market in the US that some (depending on their driving habits) can use roughly in the same way they used their gasoline vehicles, and power them with less expensive leased or owned solar systems. There is no reason to believe these price points are the end of matters, so I think it is only a matter of a few more years when decent used BEVs will be on the market and when the overall cost for getting largely or entirely off the central utility and fossil fuel merry-go-round will be even less.
To be sure there are still really good questions as to whether (or to what extent) this will fly. Will there be enough materials? How much disruption will there be of local grids? Is battery recycling going to be a viable thing? At what volumes? Could there be unforeseen consequences to mass global deployment of wind and solar energies? etc. However, PEVs are further along on a global basis than some here seem aware, including in answering some of the questions, and there are often many questions surrounding new technologies..... sometimes they end up being show-stoppers, sometimes they don't. I personally think a good approach to keep perspective is that as time passes, some answers start to accumulate, .... it is not possible to take really good accurate guesses well ahead of time, but it has been useful to me to discuss and mull these matters over with others, and this tends to help me estimate what I think the answers will be.
This forum is not primarily an EV forum and I do respect this, but at the same time (and notwithstanding that some may not want to see any discussion at all, even if it is explicitly allowed) it sounds like there's some recognition by other forum participants that discussion of and awareness of pros/cons around electric vehicles can be valuable. I have always been of the view that part of the value of installing an EV in one's garage (whether home-made or otherwise) is that it has a strong synergy with whatever wind or solar or other renewable energy one may have installed at one's property.